RE: I am a Catholic, ask me a question!
August 4, 2009 at 4:44 pm
(This post was last modified: August 4, 2009 at 4:59 pm by Jon Paul.)
(August 4, 2009 at 3:50 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: if something was created then it was created at some temporal (or supra-temporal) juncture)therefore it has a beginning
(August 4, 2009 at 3:50 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: (either in a temporal or supra-temporal sense). IT alsoi has an end even if that end is in temporal (or supra-temporal) motion (extending).Now you are simply continuing with the same nonsense.
None of this is part of the orthodox Christian definition of creation. Creation does not entail temporality.
You are welcome to entertain your own definitions if you want to. But I'm not going to waste my time discussing them, because they have nothing to do with what I believe.
(August 4, 2009 at 3:50 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: You have NOT offered a single validatable piece of evidence for your god or any other. Created means it started, simple as that ...Started? It certainly does not.
Uncreated means that which is God. Created means anything which is not God and is therefore contingent upon Gods creative activity.
It does not mean anything which is "started".
(August 4, 2009 at 3:50 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: No it's not ... it is relevant because the multiverse, having always existed, directly opposes your claim to the ever-exiting god.How does it "oppose" my claim of an "ever-existing" God, which is not even my claim? (mine is the one of a God wholly transcendent to any temporal denotations)
(August 4, 2009 at 4:01 pm)chatpilot Wrote: "We are not "held accountable", not by God certainly, for the sins of others."They were not merely "tricked". This is your interpretation, and I don't really deal with heretical interpretations. They choice themselves who to listen to. They had Gods commandment and graces, but they rejected all of it, by separating themselves from God, and instead inviting the temptation and advice of the Evil One.
Really?First of all Adam and Eve were tricked into disobeying God and since they were innocent as new born babes they did not know any bettter
The orthodox view is that they chose themselves to separate themselves from God, by the act of disobedience and the favouring of the Devil over God, of personal pride, and rejection of his grace and subsequently rejection of his forgiveness.
None of that is "innocent". And it is not only about Adam and Eve, but all of humanity, again and again, this repeats. So not only does humanity suffer from humanity as a whole's separation from God, humans keep voluntarily separating themselves from God. It's free will.
Therefore our relationship to God has, in a communal sense, been screwed. Therefore it has become an individual matter.
(August 4, 2009 at 4:01 pm)chatpilot Wrote: We are being punished for the sins of Adam and Eve and because of this from the moment we are born we bear the burden of sin.We are being punished by humanity, not by God. It is humanity which has chosen evil, and rejected God.
The people who are the most bigoted are the people who have no convictions at all.
-G. K. Chesterton
-G. K. Chesterton
