Do you believe in free will?

[NoMoreFaith]

It is a problem only if you are entering the discussion about existence of free-will with that premise.

Its also a problem if you redefine free will as determined from external causes, but refuse to name any internal causes that it is "free" from. What is "Free" about the free will you consider.

Faith has been trying to show that I'm not arguing according to his understanding of free-will - to which I've been replying "Ofcourse not."

Actually, what I've also been arguing is that your nebulous version of free will, has the equal onus of proof as any other definition. Plenty of neurologial evidence behind the changes in the brain upon making decisions, and the electrical activity leading up to it.

Is it any wonder we're confused. You're a determinst who believes in free will, but doesn't agree with compatibilism.. wtf is that. Nor have you adequately explained how on earth that can possibly work.

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You only need to show free will exists if you reject the evidence of your own experience. Magic always seems to come down to sleight of hand and misdirection. You say our apparent experience of free will is an illusion. Perhaps you like to explain how that is done exactly.

Bob is a minister, and has complete faith in his self-authenticating private evidence of God. Jesus walks with him daily, guiding him to moral choices.

How do we know Bob suffers from a delusion? Because he has no evidence for God or Jesus.
I know you have a delusion of free will because you have no evidence that you do so.
If you think that making a decision is evidence then the voices in Bobs head is evidence of God guiding him.

Don't get me wrong, you EXPERIENCE free will, you simply never had the option to act differently.

Every physical system EVER examined, or studied in depth, has always shown to be.. determined.
The brain, as the most complex organ has resisted our efforts but I would assume arrogance to declare it an exception to the rule.

How about in the 1970s, Dr Libet put his subects under a electroencephalogram and recorded the results of random motions initiated by the subjects.
What he found is that the subconscious made the decision before the conscious brain had figured out what the hell was going on (about a half second or so).
The active decision to act was a complete illusion, decided by the subconscious before the brain had time to rationalise it. In short, neuroscience has consistently shown indications that much of what the conscious brain does, is rationalise what the subconcious already told the body to do.

If we really have free will, I've got BAD news for you.

The free will is making its mind up and letting you know what you are doing AFTERWARDS.

The experiments have been repeated many times, and have shown the same thing over and over again.

I'm always struck when proponents of determinism ask for a display of free will that they have just given it themselves or else what they claim to have reasoned to is in some sense just a hardwired belief.

See above, and please read deeper into it than a forum post, theres plenty of complimentary studies which support determinism, not just the soft version of genkaus, but damnable, scary, horrible, idea of hard determinism. I hate the idea. It just seems the most plausible.

Accuse the determinist of not providing evidence, yet neuroscience, electrobiology is all about the determinism, and google will take you a ton of it. I've given one for the road.

What you'll fail to find, is a study that proves an element of conscious decision making that was free from, internal, external, or, damn it, free from ANYTHING.