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Free Will Debate
#1
Free Will Debate



(November 23, 2021 at 2:14 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: We really should start a separate thread.

The above is all I will add to this discussion, since I don't want to go through it all again.
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#2
RE: Free Will Debate
@Alan V

Are you the original author of that essay?

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#3
RE: Free Will Debate
Moderator Notice
Massive post placed in hide tags to make replies more manageable.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#4
RE: Free Will Debate
I couldn’t help but stop reading when the author dropped the dumb bomb of “no free will, then science isn’t valid”.

On account of how it one, wasn’t true, and two, would only be an argument from poor consequences if it were.

It seems to me that the entire bit can be boiled down to, “ we have free will, because we’re deciders”. A less than impressive non seq. Ofc we’re deciders…..and so is the thermostat on your ac.

Similarly, the second is another no shit statement. If we reduce free will to mean “whatever we do have” then we have it by default regardless of whether whatever we have is in any meaningful sense free.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#5
RE: Free Will Debate
(November 23, 2021 at 3:04 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: @Alan V

Are you the original author of that essay?

Boru

Yes, although I obviously quoted heavily from the three original books.

(November 23, 2021 at 3:24 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I couldn’t help but stop reading when the author dropped the dumb bomb of “no free will, then science isn’t valid”.

On account of how it one, wasn’t true, and two, would only be an argument from poor consequences if it were.

It seems to me that the entire bit can be boiled down to, “ we have free will, because we’re deciders”.  A less than impressive non seq.  Ofc we’re deciders…..and so is the thermostat on your ac.

Similarly, the second is another no shit statement.  If we reduce free will to mean “whatever we do have” then we have it by default regardless of whether whatever we have is in any meaningful sense free.

I don't necessarily agree with all I quote when I'm summarizing.  I just thought the author had a few interesting perspectives nevertheless, especially insofar as he represented a different vantage.
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#6
RE: Free Will Debate
(November 23, 2021 at 3:48 pm)Alan V Wrote:
(November 23, 2021 at 3:04 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: @Alan V

Are you the original author of that essay?

Boru

Yes, although I obviously quoted heavily from the three original books.


Thank you. For future reference:

Quote:Spamming is not allowed. Spamming includes, but is not limited to: 
  • Creating multiple threads with the same or similar thread subject in a short space of time.
  • Repeatedly posting responses to existing threads that are unrelated to the current discussion(s) in the thread.
  • Repeatedly posting links, copy/pasted content, or scripture verses, unless they are relevant to the thread and have the member's own comments added to them.
  • Posting an abundance of content you've pre-written for purposes other than forum use (i.e. essays, blog posts, etc.)

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#7
RE: Free Will Debate
Free will cannot exist absolutely unless one is willing to say that all epileptics are choosing to have their seizures or that Alzheimer's patients are choosing to forget the names of their grandchildren.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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#8
RE: Free Will Debate
@ Alan V

I get that…but the different vantage point the author provided was terminally silly. An example of how a person might be brilliant at one thing, and a drooling loon at another.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#9
RE: Free Will Debate
(November 23, 2021 at 2:32 pm)Alan V Wrote:



(November 23, 2021 at 2:14 pm)Ferrocyanide Wrote: We really should start a separate thread.

The above is all I will add to this discussion, since I don't want to go through it all again.

 Me neither.

All I'll add is that I lean towards determinism. I think the free will is mainly an illusion. I have no idea to what degree.  However, I feel as if I have free will so live as if I do.
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#10
RE: Free Will Debate
(November 23, 2021 at 4:11 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: For future reference:

Quote:Spamming is not allowed. Spamming includes, but is not limited to: 
  • Posting an abundance of content you've pre-written for purposes other than forum use (i.e. essays, blog posts, etc.)

Boru

You should delete my inappropriate post. Though I am conflicted, I would prefer it if you did.
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