Prayer Death

[Edwardo Piet]

But you've mostly diagreed with me. I enjoy your posts, but it seems the last was a little more disrespectful and silly.

I don't see where or how?

I have tried to make it known that I feel no need or ability to prove god to you guys. I can't. You should try to prove not-god to me.

No because the burde nof proof isn't on me unless I claim a positve belief that God isn't so, or in other words, that I 'know' he doesn't exist somehow.

Ok, then where is 'she'?

If you're gonna bring out that dead horse, then I choose to respond with the terrible "everywhere"

So 'everywhere'=God? So what are you describing that isn't just Nature that I myself believe in as an atheist?

I too have beef with Christianity, so why are we arguing?

I am asking as to why you believe prayer works. And how it can possibily work outside the placebo effect, if God almost certainly doesn't exist?

There is no evidence for God, and God is highly complex, so God is highly improbable. If this is the case, I wonder how prayer can work outside the placebo effect? And if you disagree, I wish to know why.

But remembering that I feel Atheism to be a belief,

It's only a 'belief' if it's a 'postive belief', in sense, not a disbelief. If I claim to absolutely know God doesn't exist, then it's a belief. Otherwise it's just a disbelief, a rejectiion because I'm unconvinced, and I don't actually claim the absolute.

Because if you can say any disbeliefs are beliefs and that they require just as much evidence as positive beliefs before either side has been substantiated...then you and I require evidence that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist otherwise it's to be considered equally probable as it is improbable!

This logic does not follow. Untill a positive belief has evidence first, it is more rational to be on the negative side of belief - to disbelieve; or in other words...to not believe - it's the opposite of belief...it's...not believing, it's not belief.

how am I to interpret your acting that your belief is undeniable

I don't have an undeniable 'belief'. My belief is a disbelief, a negative. I don't claim to absolutely know that God doesn't exist. As I said he almost certainly doesn't exist.

and my belief is unrespectable?

I don't see why I should respect belief in things that are so highly improbable and bizarre. If someone believes in Santa Claus when they're an adult, that's highly probable and bizarre, and not exactly to be respected.

And if a belief is valid, it doesn't need respect! Beliefs are not something to be 'respected' in either case.

If you have beef with Christians, I suggest you find one.

There's some on these forums. As I said, I don't have a beef with Christians. But with Christianity. I don't have a problem with individuals. But with their beliefs.

You're not a Christian but you still believe in God(s), and I find that curious and I ask questions about it. You're on atheist forums here, and you believe in God - I'm going to ask you about it, considering I'm interested in what everyone believes/disbelieves.

And along with Christians or anybody else for that matter, I see no reason to respect your 'beliefs', I question them.

No, it's just that I hold you to a higher standard. I have had some very enjoyable and enlightening conversation with you, likely more than any one else here. So to see you fall in the kindergarten traps of arguing is saddening. You used to be more polite, and that made your arguments and points much stronger.

I think that's just because I was trying to know more about you and what you believe when you first joined. I still care just as much, it's just now I know more about your beliefs so I know what to question.

And I am still yet to see you point out where I've been 'disrespectful'. And sorry if you feel I've been impolite but - once again, I don't see that either. Where have I been 'impolite'?

Thank you, hopefully we can clear this up.

I hope so too.

EvF