RE: I am an orthodox Christian, ask me a question!
August 13, 2009 at 7:23 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2009 at 7:25 pm by Jon Paul.)
(August 13, 2009 at 6:03 pm)LukeMC Wrote: (and i'm referring to God being your new ontologically independent being)No, because God would not be a "new" ontologically independent being; he would be the only ontologically independent and subsistent being, and any other being would be contingent upon him. Besides, the question is not whether we should add God just for kicks, to add more complexity, but whether he is necessary minimally, for the existence of the universe. The doctrine of divine simplicity, that God is noncomposite (pure actuality), and that all of his attributes are equal to the same fact of his being and existence, makes him, nevertheless, the simplest possible ontological unit in existence, simpler than any unit in the universe, which is always composite (of both actuality and potentiality) and whose attributes followingly do not equal the same fact of their being and existence.
(August 13, 2009 at 6:01 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Logic doesn't need to exist outside our subjective minds for objective reality to exist. Logic is how we measure the reality we experience through our own experience.No, but logic needs to apply outside of our minds as a conceptual reality. Obviously logic means the rules and laws of reality that apply to matter and energy, and in time and space, but logic is not itself matter, energy or time and space; it is itself conceptual, because it is that which applies to matter, and energy, and in time and space, e.g. the rules and patterns of their behaviour, but is not it self any of them.
(August 13, 2009 at 6:00 pm)amw79 Wrote: I have read the argument, its utterly unconvincing for the reasons given.I don't care if it's unconvincing; nevertheless, it's unrefuted.
(August 13, 2009 at 6:00 pm)amw79 Wrote: Whether or not the theory of evolution exists independently of subjective minds or,I've never asked if the "theory of evolution" exists independently of human minds, but whether the truth of it does, that is, whether the conceptual content of it such as described in the theory actually conceptually applies to reality, exists independently of human minds or only exists in human minds.
(August 13, 2009 at 7:20 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: So you're in effect content to talk to yourself?No, but I cannot force you, by any means, to accept something as true. That will, in the end, have to depend on your own free will.
Or are you specifically talking of me?
I can only await a refutation, and if it does not come, disregard your conclusions.
The people who are the most bigoted are the people who have no convictions at all.
-G. K. Chesterton
-G. K. Chesterton