RE: Empty Tomb Puzzle
April 4, 2012 at 3:18 am
(This post was last modified: April 4, 2012 at 4:06 am by Phil.)
(April 1, 2012 at 12:34 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Each of the Gospel accounts report events from the perscpective of the four writers. Where one writer glosses over certain happenings, the other writers supply the details. The four Gospel accounts compliment each other, and taken together, give us a more comprehensive picture of what happened. No Gospel account directly contradicts any of the others. I made a side-by-side comparision of all four and assembled for you the followings narrative.
The guards watch dumbfounded as an angel uses an earthquake to roll away the stone that had sealed the tomb. The guards flee in terror. Mary Magdelalene, Mary mother of James, Joanna, and other unnamed women go to visit the grave.
Matt 28:2-4 is the only Gospel account to supply details about the guards and the earthquake.
John 20:1 focuses on Mary Magdelalene to the exclusion of the other woment in the party.
Matt 28:1 also focuses on Mary Magdelaene, incidentally mentions Mary mother of James, but not the other women.
Luke 24:10 identifies Joanna as one of the women in the party.
When they arrive they see that the tomb has been opened and they see a youth sitting on the stone. The child tells them that Jesus isn't there because he had risen and that they should tell the disciples. The youth also tells them that Jesus will meet them in Galelie.Some or all of the women then enter the tomb. Two men suddenly appear. The men say, "He is not here...". The women bow to the ground in reverence. Then they go back to some the disciples reporting what the youth and the two men had said. Mary Magdalene appears to remember what was said but still believes someone carted away the body.
None of the disciples present believe the women. Mary Magdalene leads Peter and John back to the tomb so they could see for themselves..John rushes ahead but doesn't enter. He watches from the outside as Peter goes into the tomb and examines the burial wrappings. While John and Peter are examining the tomb, the two men appear to Mary again. This time Jesus is with them although she doesn't recognize him until he says her name.
Matt 28:7 records what the youth said then skips all the intervining details and goes direct to the appearence in the upper room.
Mark 16:7 also records the encounter with the youth, but omits the details of the two men. Mark also skips over Peter, John's and Mary's visit.
Luke 24:12 focuses on Peter as the central character to the exclusion of John and Mary.
John 20:8-18 adds all the details relating John and Mary Magdalene.
Meanwhile, two of the disciples, one named Cleopas, are walking to Emmas, They meet a man on the road and have dinner with him and discuss the events of the Passion. Suddenly the two disciples finally recognize the man as the risen Christ.
Mark 16 and John 20 do not record this particualar visitation.
Finally, everyone is united for dinner. Peter and John report to the rest that the tomb was empty. The two disciples returning from Emmau chime in and report their encounter with Jesus. And the reports of Mary Magdalene and the other women are fresh in their minds. Everyone is confused. The remaining disciples, including Thomas, don't believe any of it until finally Jesus appears within their midst to clear up the events of the day.
And that is how it happened...
Those who say that the four Gospel accounts conflict have not taken the time to complete the puzzle. I have done so for you, so that you may understand the story in its entirety.
The empty tomb puzzle is not a puzzle but a story that is almost entirely dependent on the gospel of Mark. Here is a partial list of those who wrote about the historical unreliability of the empty tomb story (I'll restrict the writers to those of the last century and put em in alphabetical order.): Marcus Borg, Günther Bornkamm, Gerald Baldock Bostock, Rudolf Bultmann, Peter Carnley, John Dominic Crossan, Steven Davies, Maurice Goguel, Michael Goulder, Hans Grass, Charles Guignebert, Uta Ranke-Heinemann, Randal Helms, Herman Hendrickx, Roy Hoover, Helmut Koester, Hans Küng, Alfred Loisy, Burton Mack, Willi Marxsen, Gerd Lüdemann, Norman Perrin, Robert M. Price, Marianne Sawicki, John Shelby Spong, Howard M. Teeple and the Reverend John T. Theodore
Remember, this is a partial list of authors from last century. If you look without your blinders I am more than certain you can find many from this century.
(April 1, 2012 at 7:51 pm)padraic Wrote: Who was Joseph of Arimathea,really?
Josephus: Life Section 414 from Whiston’s Translation Wrote:... as I [Joseph Bar Mathias] came back, I saw many captives crucified; and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance. I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician’s hands, while the third recovered.
You can see in the brackets where the author of Mark shamelessly stole the idea of Joseph of Aramathea. Also it is quite obvious where the story of Jesus being crucified with a criminal on each side of him came from. Also, the apologetic craze of the 18th century called the swoon theory (where Jesus didn't really die on the cross) most likely began after this passage was read.
In case anyone is interested in the full section, it can be found here.
(April 1, 2012 at 11:53 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: I like to believe I'm an open minded and reasonable person.
Judging by this thread, either your mind is so open your brain fell out or you have open mind confused with gullible.
(April 2, 2012 at 3:51 pm)oxymoron Wrote:(April 2, 2012 at 3:46 pm)Godschild Wrote: but how do you get past the simple solution that the priest had to put away Jesus once and for all by opening the tomb.
You get past it by remembering (duh) that the whole thing is not a historical treatise but a synthesised, copied, edited story with absolutely no external validation from legitimate, contemporary sources?
Besides that it seems that GC doesn't even know his idol (the bible). It was not a priest that rolled the stone away from the tomb. Bible says it was Joseph of Arimithea (or Joseph apo Mathias which is the exact Greek used in the passage from Josephus I cited above).
(April 4, 2012 at 2:15 am)Godschild Wrote: remains that no one can disprove Christ and His apostles.You are off your meds again GC. But if you are so sure you can provide evidence (outside the bible which is the claim) go right ahead but be ready to have your delusion shattered.