(April 4, 2012 at 2:15 am)Godschild Wrote: Jesus appeared to 500 people during the 40 days after the resurrection to the ascending. The event in Acts 1:15 was on a single day after the ascending, this does not mean that the other 380 had turned from the way. Your misrepresentation of what scriptures say is no more than a ploy to deceive.
It specifically states brethren to the 500, biblical definition of brethren is those who accepted Jesus is their heart. After the ascension the number of believers dropped to 120. One would think their faith would be bolstered, instead of wandering off.
If my local shepherd lost 380 of his 500, he'd get the sack. So where did they all go. He was supposed to be addressing all of them.
(April 4, 2012 at 2:15 am)Godschild Wrote: Nero used the christians as scapegoat they did not burn Rome. Peter said in the scriptures that his death was near. Peter was jailed and beaten also, he had many chances to deny the resurrection, if it were not true. This shows that Peter died for the truth.
Never said they did burn rome, but when looking for a scapegoat, as I mentioned, claiming it was all a hoax would not have saved them. If Peter WAS beaten and jailed, then claiming it wasn't true would not have saved him. That wasn't why he was jailed. He was jailed for being an insurgent.
(April 4, 2012 at 2:15 am)Godschild Wrote: James the son of Zebedee, was killed by Herod Agrippa, not a roman solider. As I said above, Peter said his death was near, Paul also made the same statement. Even though Paul was not one of the 12 he spent much time with them, and more than likely would found out the lie if it were true. Paul also imprisoned many christians as Saul, why would a man turn from the stature he enjoyed, and suffer through the life of a christian.
I was talking about the roman persecution, where did James come from? Either way, the point stands, a soldier is not going to ignore his orders even if James were to renounce the faith.
Your second point is irrelevant. People die for cults all the time.
(April 4, 2012 at 2:15 am)Godschild Wrote:NMF Wrote:For this argument "they would not die for a lie" to work, you need to show, that the resurrection of Jesus was a sufficiently impressive event to convince. It wasn't, only the diehards apparently were, which makes Christianity nothing more than a cult of gullibility gotten out of control.
Secondly, you need to show how each apostle died. But we have no facts here, no history, not even biblical support.
The argument is a smokescreen, pretending to knowledge you cannot possess about the facts of the situation.
500 saw and believed, you mean to tell me if you saw a friend who had been dead, walking around alive and well, you would not be convinced he was risen. The diehards as you call them were the ones Christ revealed Himself to, why would He reveal Himself to people who would not know Him.
By the way why haven't you addressed the second part of my statement, why didn't the Jewish priest just open the tomb and show everyone the body was still in the tomb?
He did, 500 of the brethren, who then just wandered off and got bored it seems.
Secondly, you claim the apostles died for their beliefs. Please show me biblical or historical mention of how they all died, and how they could have avoided death by claiming it wasn't true.
If you can't do this, then you are simply making things up, plain and simple that the apostles died for their beliefs.
I didn't address the second part of your statement, because its not something I have ever looked at in depth, and would be a poor commentator on it.
This does not allow for the fallacy of argument from silence.
Would you have me discuss something I have never read, so that you can point out the flaws? That would be ridiculous. If you like, I'll read up on the matter.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm