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Objective morality
#45
RE: Objective morality
Cthulu, hopefully this reply addresses the apparent contradiction in how I presented things. When I was speaking about the balance of physcial constants and forces, I hoped to imply my confidence that a Theory of Everything* will be developed that coordinates the various constants and forces into a unified description of how the physical universe apparently works. It wasn't my intention to suggest that stars exploding and orbits decaying in one part of the universe somehow offsets star formation etc. elsewhere.

(April 17, 2012 at 6:18 pm)genkaus Wrote: The known physical laws are mostly consistent but fail in situations such as while approaching a singularity.
True. The known physical laws are mental constructs that describe operations of the material universe. Even singularities have some kind of objective nature, oneness. What actually happens in the material world may indeed be quite different from what apparently happens. With respect to logic, the 'rules' of logic may also be mental constructs, but that doesn't mean the world isn't ultimately rational and understandable by means of logic. For example, it cannot both exist and not exist at the same time. Regardless of what the ground of reality actually is, as opposed to how we perceive it, I find it difficult to believe that reality is completely arbitrary and random. That would mean everything we know is unfounded.

(April 17, 2012 at 6:18 pm)genkaus Wrote: No, even when considered as a whole, the entropy (disorder) within the universe is constantly increasing. That is another thing that contradicts your "integrated whole" idea.
The All includes the fullness of time and has within itself both the initial and final state of the physical universe. One possible objection is this. While the past is known and exists, the future doesn’t exist in any meaningful sense. This position assumes that the time only extends from this point backwards into the past. And yet every law of physics is reversible, meaning that just as future states can be calculated and predicted, we can also observe a current state and predict what the previous state was.

Perception of the arrow of time moving forward is just that, a perception, i.e. the past is a current memory and the future is an imagined past. The only thing we truly experience is now. I see two possibilities for the true nature of time as opposed to the apparent one. The first is a mystical ‘eternal moment’. The second is the ineffable simultaneous occurrence of all temporal relations within the whole. In either case, various parts (the Many) both arise and dissolve within the whole (the All). But the All itself neither arises nor dissolves. We have our existence between two aspects of the All: the singularity, perfect oneness devoid of substance, and the ‘final whimper’ or substance devoid of any form.

Since we have defined integrity to describe what has both wholeness and internal consistency that makes my use of the term ‘harmony redundant. The striving for integrity I refer to is the emergence of parts within the whole. In effect one property I attribute to the All is the ability of parts to self-organizing within it to form wholes. It also allows wholes to dissolve into parts. The moral choice is nested in this dynamic. Moral agents work to either live a complete life to its full potential or they accept incompleteness and pursue goals that lead to the dissolution of self.

(April 17, 2012 at 6:18 pm)genkaus Wrote: But what about the destination of happiness? Where does that lie on the map? Does your route go through it? Is it possible that you might have to take a detour?
Happiness is a desired end. A virtuous life, a life of integrity, serves as a means to that end. I suspect the detour you imagine is related to trading current pleasures for better ones imagined in the future, or something to that effect. I imagine a detour on that path would be the like a runner that trains for a race. The pain and effort of exercise, pays off not only in terms of health but also in the satisfaction of achievement. I would assert that such endeavors exemplify the moral value of integrity apart from the pure pursuit of pleasure and comfort.

*Note: The TOE excludes any consideration of mental phenomena and is thus incomplete.
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Messages In This Thread
Objective morality - by FallentoReason - April 12, 2012 at 10:52 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Matt231 - April 12, 2012 at 11:05 pm
RE: Objective morality - by padraic - April 12, 2012 at 11:08 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Reforged - April 12, 2012 at 11:11 pm
RE: Objective morality - by FallentoReason - April 12, 2012 at 11:23 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Reforged - April 12, 2012 at 11:55 pm
RE: Objective morality - by FallentoReason - April 12, 2012 at 11:11 pm
RE: Objective morality - by padraic - April 12, 2012 at 11:23 pm
RE: Objective morality - by FallentoReason - April 12, 2012 at 11:30 pm
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 12, 2012 at 11:45 pm
RE: Objective morality - by FallentoReason - April 13, 2012 at 12:06 am
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 8:55 am
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 12, 2012 at 11:28 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 12, 2012 at 11:38 pm
RE: Objective morality - by padraic - April 12, 2012 at 11:45 pm
RE: Objective morality - by The Grand Nudger - April 13, 2012 at 9:10 am
RE: Objective morality - by mediamogul - April 13, 2012 at 9:52 am
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 10:06 am
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 13, 2012 at 11:40 am
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 2:08 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 13, 2012 at 2:25 pm
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 2:33 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 13, 2012 at 3:09 pm
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 7:31 pm
RE: Objective morality - by mediamogul - April 13, 2012 at 12:17 pm
RE: Objective morality - by houseofcantor - April 13, 2012 at 10:11 am
RE: Objective morality - by Mister Agenda - April 13, 2012 at 12:09 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 13, 2012 at 12:31 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 13, 2012 at 7:21 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 13, 2012 at 10:20 pm
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 14, 2012 at 7:13 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 14, 2012 at 8:10 pm
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 16, 2012 at 4:21 am
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 16, 2012 at 11:49 am
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 16, 2012 at 12:43 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Zen Badger - April 16, 2012 at 5:02 am
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 17, 2012 at 4:47 pm
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 17, 2012 at 5:16 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 17, 2012 at 5:50 pm
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 17, 2012 at 6:18 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 18, 2012 at 12:08 am
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 18, 2012 at 12:32 am
RE: Objective morality - by Jackalope - April 18, 2012 at 12:33 am
RE: Objective morality - by Jackalope - April 17, 2012 at 7:14 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 18, 2012 at 4:41 pm
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 18, 2012 at 5:22 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Jackalope - April 19, 2012 at 12:09 am
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 18, 2012 at 8:29 pm
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 18, 2012 at 9:20 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 19, 2012 at 6:01 pm
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 19, 2012 at 6:16 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Scabby Joe - April 23, 2012 at 5:39 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Godschild - April 23, 2012 at 11:03 pm
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 24, 2012 at 1:52 am
RE: Objective morality - by simplexity - April 24, 2012 at 3:29 am
RE: Objective morality - by Godschild - April 24, 2012 at 4:32 pm
RE: Objective morality - by simplexity - April 24, 2012 at 6:00 pm
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 24, 2012 at 9:42 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Godschild - April 26, 2012 at 1:06 am
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 26, 2012 at 2:02 am
RE: Objective morality - by Godschild - April 26, 2012 at 3:04 am
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 26, 2012 at 3:53 am
RE: Objective morality - by Godschild - April 26, 2012 at 4:47 am
RE: Objective morality - by genkaus - April 26, 2012 at 5:15 am
RE: Objective morality - by The Grand Nudger - April 23, 2012 at 6:54 pm
RE: Objective morality - by simplexity - April 23, 2012 at 8:44 pm
RE: Objective morality - by Jackalope - April 23, 2012 at 11:14 pm
RE: Objective morality - by simplexity - April 24, 2012 at 12:28 am
RE: Objective morality - by Jackalope - April 24, 2012 at 12:37 am
RE: Objective morality - by simplexity - April 24, 2012 at 12:42 am
RE: Objective morality - by Jackalope - April 24, 2012 at 12:50 am
RE: Objective morality - by simplexity - April 24, 2012 at 12:56 am
RE: Objective morality - by Neo-Scholastic - April 24, 2012 at 8:01 pm

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