RE: Illiterate men.
April 21, 2012 at 2:41 pm
(This post was last modified: April 21, 2012 at 2:42 pm by Drich.)
(April 21, 2012 at 2:01 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: So he didn't die when he was boiled in oil?Not all believe he was boiled in oil this is just a cathloic church tradition. Because he was not harmed the officials who had him boiled in oil banished him to the isle of Patmos where he supposedly wrote the book of revelations. This is what I found on wiki:
Roman Catholic tradition states that after the Assumption, John went to Ephesus and from there wrote the three epistles traditionally attributed to him. John was allegedly banished by the Roman authorities to the Greek island of Patmos, where some believe that he wrote the Book of Revelation. According to Tertullian (in The Prescription of Heretics) John was banished (presumably to Patmos) after being plunged into boiling oil in Rome and suffering nothing from it. It is said that all in the entire Colosseum audience were converted to Christianity upon witnessing this miracle. This event would have occurred during the reign of Domitian, a Roman emperor who was known for his persecution of Christians in the late 1st century.
When John was aged, he trained Polycarp who later became Bishop of Smyrna. This was important because Polycarp was able to carry John's message to future generations. Polycarp taught Irenaeus, and passed on to him stories about John. In Against Heresies, Irenaeus relates how Polycarp told a story of
“ John, the disciple of the Lord, going to bathe at Ephesus, and perceiving Cerinthus within, rushed out of the bath-house without bathing, exclaiming, "Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within."[12] ”
It is traditionally believed that John survived his contemporary apostles and lived to an extreme old age, dying naturally at Ephesus in about AD 100.[13] John's traditional tomb is thought to be located at Selçuk, a small town in the vicinity of Ephesus.
That said many apologists say the writing styles of the books of John and the writing of John of Patmos had to have come from different people. That is why there is always a distinction between the two.
It is not beyond the scope of God to save someone like this but know this tradition generally does not go too far past the roman cathloic Church.
Quote: I'm only asking because I discussed this with a Christian friend and he was convinced that he died a martyr as opposed to a natural death which is what I used to think.I would say 99% of church tradition puts John death on old age.
Quote:Is the authorship verifiable somehow within scripture, or is it through Church tradition that you know this i.e. just accept it was Matthew because the top of the page has his name?there are ques but the interpretation of said ques fall back on a traditional understanding of who Mat was.
Quote:Ah I see. Hmm I still find it somewhat far fetched.It would be unless He was God.
Quote: I mean if you look at all the fundamental scientific discoveries they were done by PhD students in their early 20's (all except Planck I think). So it's believable that you can be brilliant in your early life, but I don't know about a theological genius around the age of 12-14...I agree if you are left to your own devices to learn the ins and outs of religion. however true wisdom is not the result of an academic effort but it is a gift from God. A gift that can be given or taken at any time.
In my time teaching youth groups I found the very young often times have a better understanding of God than those who focus on the religious aspects of traditional worship.
All of that aside, Would not the son know his Father better (even at 12-14) than men who study what the Father has written?