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the straw men of premarital sex.
#1
the straw men of premarital sex.
I've finally looked up the definition of "straw man" and "red herring". Yay me!
So armed with this knowledge I think I can put my thoughts of premarital sex as it relates to abortion. please tell me if I am on or off the mark.
my argument as follows.
Due to improvements in contraceptive technology, gender equality, and medical science, premarital sex is no longer as large a problem as it has been in the past.
The theist mind says "God says premarital sex is bad so we must shoot down this argument any way we can."
then the theist mind says "hey premarital sex CAN cause unwanted pregnancy which can lead to abortion. This can be considered murder of children. We can easily get people to agree that murder of children is bad and therefore shoot down the idea of premarital sex being okay."
If my thinking is correct on what the theist's mind holds, then the next question would be; is the abortion issue a straw man or red herring to premarital sex?
As always I welcome thoughts from all sides. If, however, my thinking is incorrect of the part of the theist please tell me how and why.
On the atheist side let me know if my education paid off or if i'm just crazy.
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#2
RE: the straw men of premarital sex.
Quote:The theist mind says "God says premarital sex is bad so we must shoot down this argument any way we can."

Quote:Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
H L Mencken
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#3
RE: the straw men of premarital sex.
Sure, premarital sex CAN cause unwanted pregnancy which can lead to abortion.  But so can post-marital sex.  Thus, in order for theists to be consistent (not that they've ever worried much about that) they would need to take as strong a stand against married people having sex as they do against single people having sex.  Good luck with that...

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#4
RE: the straw men of premarital sex.
I think premarital sex is mostly not a problem any more because marriage isn't a big deal any more. At one point, it was needed for the child to have economical stability and social acceptance. But now?
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

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#5
RE: the straw men of premarital sex.
It's a red herring, in that it's an attempt to link a vaguely related boogeyman to the subject under discussion in every case, but it's also an appeal to consequences fallacy, in that "abortion is bad therefore premarital sex is bad due to risking abortion," is not a valid syllogism, because it fails to address the root cause of abortion, which is the thing they're actually objecting to, ostensibly. A properly formulated version of the argument would run "abortion is bad, therefore unsafe sex is bad, as it offers the highest risk of leading to abortions," but that's also not an argument our theist friends would ever make because they're also largely against contraception.

This is the sort of shit that people tend to get into when they try to disguise what it is they're arguing against: in this case, premarital sex is the objection, but they recognize that "we don't like it," is not a reason for other people to stop doing it, so we get all these pretenses as to why that don't address the real issue because they were only ever meant to obscure the real issue, which is the evangelical need to control other people.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

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#6
RE: the straw men of premarital sex.
(March 25, 2016 at 5:37 pm)Esquilax Wrote: It's a red herring, in that it's an attempt to link a vaguely related boogeyman to the subject under discussion in every case, but it's also an appeal to consequences fallacy, in that "abortion is bad therefore premarital sex is bad due to risking abortion," is not a valid syllogism, because it fails to address the root cause of abortion, which is the thing they're actually objecting to, ostensibly. A properly formulated version of the argument would run "abortion is bad, therefore unsafe sex is bad, as it offers the highest risk of leading to abortions," but that's also not an argument our theist friends would ever make because they're also largely against contraception.

This is the sort of shit that people tend to get into when they try to disguise what it is they're arguing against: in this case, premarital sex is the objection, but they recognize that "we don't like it," is not a reason for other people to stop doing it, so we get all these pretenses as to why that don't address the real issue because they were only ever meant to obscure the real issue, which is the evangelical need to control other people.

I apologize. I am just learning all of this. Red herring? So it is a distraction or a misdirection.
I often hear the religious cry a lot about abortion. Then of course we see the bible full of Dog telling his people to kill all sorts of other peoples no matter man, woman, or child. It seems clear to me that the control factor is there and they want to use any and all ways to do so. It just seems it is easier to get people to side with the sob story of killing children than it is the "sin" of sex at the wrong time. Sorry I haven't slept since Kansas and now i'm in Iowa.
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#7
RE: the straw men of premarital sex.
A strawman that's often presented is, "You think it's fine to use abortion as a method of contraception."

Very few people I've talked to would hold such a position. It's the stupid idea that if you support people's right to choose to have an abortion, that you think abortions are great or something, or are of no consequence.

Abortions are often the most reasonable solution to a situation that wasn't planned; it doesn't mean it follows that trying to get into that situation in the first place, or not caring if you do, is a good way to behave.

Maybe you'd find my beginner's guide to identifying logical fallacies useful, click here Smile
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#8
RE: the straw men of premarital sex.
Quote:A strawman that's often presented is, "You think it's fine to use abortion as a method of contraception."

Well, that's just stupid. Abortion can't be contraception, since conception has already taken place.

All right-thinking atheists know that abortion is a method of population control...

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#9
RE: the straw men of premarital sex.
Derrr ...Theists, where you do think your Big Mac comes from? Cows?


ROFLOL
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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#10
RE: the straw men of premarital sex.
(March 25, 2016 at 2:57 pm)loganonekenobi Wrote: The theist mind says "God says premarital sex is bad so we must shoot down this argument any way we can."

That's actually not true, you can look it up in the Bible yourself. Only unmarried women are expected to keep fidelity, men can have sex with any woman besides the wife of another man and it isn't sinful.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK

The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK


"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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