(April 23, 2012 at 11:03 pm)Godschild Wrote: Objective morality is not effected by view points. It is not dependent on people, it exist because there is One who can judge and enforce it, because the One is absolutely moral and because that morality is who the One is.
genkaus Wrote:Bullshit. Objective morality - in order to be objective - must not be affected by that "One" either, otherwise, it won't be objective. Further, there is no constraint on objective morality to be absolute as well
How can you possibly believe that, objective (absolute) morality must come from a perfectly moral source, if it does not, it is subjective (whatever I feel) morality. Morality does not come out of the thin air, it represents the One or those who initiate it.
(April 23, 2012 at 11:03 pm)Godschild Wrote: Yes that's what many do, however this makes morality subjective, and subjective morality taken to it's limit would be a disaster, everyone would live by his/her own morality, chaos, the downfall of civilization.
genkaus Wrote:Unless, ofcourse, they can find certain common grounds in interests of co-existence which form the social morality, which allows everyone to practice their own morality. Hey, guess what, that's what we are doing right now.
No, not in this country we do not. No one is allowed to claim they are innocent because of their own subjective morality. They must claim their innocents according to the written law. I will agree that the morality of this nation is changing (for the worse IMO) and is subjective because it changes over time.
(April 23, 2012 at 11:03 pm)Godschild Wrote: Again objective morality does not depend on people or what they believe, it is a standard that is set because of who the One is. Varied perception of morality is subjective morality and will result in an unfairness for some and an advantage for others, the more powerful will set morality for a given population.
genkaus Wrote:Wrong - objective morality wouldn't be objective if it is being set by anyone, even the One. And wrong - your delusions to the contrary - there can be basic, rational morals on which everyone can agree on as the basis of society.
Again, how can you believe that, morality does not appear out of thin air, and man's nature leads to subjective morality, this means only the absolutely moral of the One can set objective morality. This means that only the One can judge and punish. I would agree that most can agree on some different moral issues, these usually become law of the people.
(April 23, 2012 at 11:03 pm)Godschild Wrote: They can't and that is what's absolutely wrong with subjective morality, but when you have a society run by man and all his flaws and you kick out the only One who is objectively moral at some point the society will fail, I can prove that statement too.
genkaus Wrote:Actually, the society which depended upon the One for morality is a society made for failure. Once you get that one out of the way, you can actually come up with over-arching moral code based on reality and nature of moral agents, which would be acceptable to any rational person.
How do you see a society that has objective morality by the One becoming a failure. I do not know of one nation that has survived under subjective morality.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
