Obama's church buddies on his new gay marriage stance

[Annik]

Honest question here, could you explain the difference between heterosexual feelings and homosexual feelings for me (or provide a link)? The idea of there being separate types of feelings for homosexuality and heterosexuality does not jive with my personal experience at all, so I'm a bit thrown as to what you mean.

I completely get that there are sexual feelings. I'm aware that I feel them toward some very small percentage of women. I just don't understand how these feelings are any different than those of homosexuals. Why are my feelings not the exact same as theirs, even though we are attracted to different people?

For instance, I think there is a definite feeling of pleasure for me when seeing a can of Pepsi. I understand that some people get that same feeling when seeing a can of Coke. I do not, however, believe that there are separate Coke-feelings and Pepsi-feelings.

(As a note, I would consider myself someone who chooses Pepsi over Coke. For what it's worth.)

I said you were mixing together having feelings and acting on them. You misunderstood my post.

I have never seen any evidence of this, and last I heard there still wasn't any. Do you have links handy to any studies that support your claim? I honestly don't keep up all that well since I consider the choice/not a choice debate rather trivial, so I easily could have missed new studies.

Please refer to my earlier post in this thread. I have quoted some articles.

Ah, we were arguing different things. Your view sort of takes the power away from having choices at all, though.

Going back to my Pepsi vs. Coke argument, you can say that I don't get to choose which flavor I have a preference for. Therefore, when it comes to choosing whether I drink Coke or Pepsi, there's really no choice at all. I will simply reach for the one I prefer without choosing, assuming that my preference is strong either way (strict hetero- or homosexual), grab whichever I prefer at a given time (bisexual, simplified for sake of argument), or grab a Faygo (filthy, filthy Juggalo). Any semblance of choice is illusory, though, since I'm unable to control my preferences.

I think that argument is a reasonable one, but I don't believe it fairly represents the human experience. We definitely feel as if we have choices, so saying sexuality is not a choice, but other similar experiences are, feels entirely contradictory. I'm completely with you if you want to view it from the perspective that choices are illusions. I just don't think defining things in those terms is very useful for discussion.

Do you choose to have heterosexual feelings? No. The same applies to homosexual feelings. This argument that homosexuality is a choice is a silly one considering we have about as much control over our sexual preference as we have over what gender we're born as. We simply can't help it. It's not something you can wish away or change your mind about. Saying sexuality is a choice is like saying that being born with blue eyes is a choice.

Let's run with your Coke/Pepsi argument. You might like Pepsi, even though the majority like Coke. In fact, people get made fun of for drinking Pepsi, it's the Devil's Drink. You try and drink Coke, but it's too sugary, too syrupy. You really, really want to like Coke, society gives you every incentive to like Coke, but you just can't do it. Your taste buds aren't like Coke drinkers. You just like Pepsi more.

Now, obviously, homosexuals are those who like Pepsi. Choosing to be homosexual in a hostile society is not something people regularly do. People get married and have kids, all while trying to suppress these feelings. They don't just go away, no matter how much one wants them too. Because it's not a choice. People go through desperate 'Pray Away the Gay' camps to try and rid themselves of their sexual identities (which do not work), they kill themselves because they think something is wrong with them, they lie to themselves and eventually break down when they realize that they can't run away from themselves.

Homosexuality as a choice is as outdated and ignorant as homosexuality as a mental disorder.