Obama's church buddies on his new gay marriage stance

[Jinkies]

Do you choose to have heterosexual feelings? No. The same applies to homosexual feelings.

I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding or ignoring my previous post, but I agreed with this sentiment there, assuming what you mean by "heterosexual feelings" and "homosexual feelings" are sexual preferences.

Let's run with your Coke/Pepsi argument. You might like Pepsi, even though the majority like Coke. In fact, people get made fun of for drinking Pepsi, it's the Devil's Drink. You try and drink Coke, but it's too sugary, too syrupy. You really, really want to like Coke, society gives you every incentive to like Coke, but you just can't do it. Your taste buds aren't like Coke drinkers. You just like Pepsi more.

Now, obviously, homosexuals are those who like Pepsi. Choosing to be homosexual in a hostile society is not something people regularly do. People get married and have kids, all while trying to suppress these feelings. They don't just go away, no matter how much one wants them too. Because it's not a choice. People go through desperate 'Pray Away the Gay' camps to try and rid themselves of their sexual identities (which do not work), they kill themselves because they think something is wrong with them, they lie to themselves and eventually break down when they realize that they can't run away from themselves.

If you're going to run with my comparison, I'd prefer if you didn't run it straight to Crazy Town at the first opportunity. Why are you bringing all that religion into things? Again, I'm not sure if you're purposely ignoring what I said or if you're misunderstanding it, but what you're saying here has no relation to what I've said at all. All of that religious baggage you're bringing with you has no relation to an argument on what constitutes a choice.

Please read my previous post again and try not to bring your own views of what I'm saying into it. I was comparing one kind of choice (Coke vs. Pepsi) with another (hetero- vs. homosexuality). My point was that saying homosexuality is not a choice, but that picking between other options in a similar situation is a choice, is contradictory.

Homosexuality as a choice is as outdated and ignorant as homosexuality as a mental disorder.

Persecuting homosexuals is ignorant, though calling it outdated would be a stretch. Being shitty is timeless. Considering homosexuality a choice is simply something you disagree with.

I feel like I was extremely clear in my earlier post, but I'll go over it again here. You are not able to choose what you have a preference for, be that Pepsi, rice, or penis. You are still able to choose what you do about that preference.

If I hand you a Coke and a Pepsi, are you able to choose which one you will drink? If your answer is yes, then I would like you to explain to me how this situation is fundamentally different from human sexuality.

If your answer is no, then I'd guess there's a fair chance you think choices are illusory (as I do). In that case, it's not fair to say that sexuality is not a choice, since what you really mean is that nothing is a choice. While that's my view, I consider it ultimately useless to the human experience, since we clearly feel as if we are making choices in life.

To that end, I consider the "choice" between Coke and Pepsi to exist. To humans, it does. When given options, we sometimes honestly feel that we are actively choosing between them. Not all choices feel that way, though, since the choice of jumping off a cliff or eating a candy bar has one option almost no one would take.

I also view sexuality to be a choice in the same way, as it operates under identical principles to the Coke/Pepsi or rice/bread choices. I'll continue to stick with that unless someone shows some sort of evidence that sexuality is fundamentally different than other human preferences. As of yet, there is nothing to point in that direction.

For some reason, many people feel that it's okay to persecute homosexuals if sexuality is a choice. This is not my position any more than persecuting people who choose Coke is my position. I simply see no convincing argument that sexuality is different from all other human experiences.

Edit: I just realized that part of this conversation is likely us talking past each other. If your view of homosexuality simply includes preferences, but not actions, then we don't disagree there at all.