RE: Understanding the bible
May 29, 2012 at 1:59 pm
(This post was last modified: May 29, 2012 at 2:10 pm by Godscreated.)
(May 29, 2012 at 1:06 pm)FallentoReason Wrote:Godschild Wrote:Didn't know there was a talking snake in scripture, oh, I guess you must be talking about the serpent. God knew the fall was going to happen, so yes this is part of His plan, would He prefer the fall never happened, yes, but God knew with free will in the plan that the fall would happen.There's an apparent contradiction in the bolded section.
Let's say that you could see into the future. You see something within the next 5 minutes that e.g. will be lethal to your well being. In all your power, you would try and avoid it right, because you would rather not go through that. Well, by the same token if God would have instead not have us suffer, then he can't be all-powerful because he didn't prevent that from happening.
The plan is not about us having to suffer, it's that we would suffer because of our misuse of our free will.
You're saying God can't be all powerful because He allows the plan to continue, on the contrary, He is all powerful because His plan does not need to be changed.
As for your little supposition, what if you could see that to save yourself would cause the death of many others, then what, be selfish and save your self or give of your self and save the many?
(May 29, 2012 at 1:32 pm)Stimbo Wrote: The vibe I'm getting from all this is that the biblegod's Will must ultimately triumph, because it knows how things will play out from beginning to end and has chosen to reveal the story to us mortals (including that spoiler ending). Yet at the same time, we mere mortals who cannot even begin to hope to understand even a scintilla of this Grand Design can throw a spanner into the works simply by being what we were created to be. In any other context this sort of thing would be called a plot hole.
(Bonus kudos if anyone can spot the hidden Godwin.)
What were we suppose to be in your belief? Also how is it you think a mere mortal can throw a wrench in God's plan?
(May 29, 2012 at 1:15 pm)Kayenneh Wrote: I've said it before, I'll say it again. Ultimatums does not equal 'free will', so will you stop with that already?
NO!
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.