I've said it before, I'll say it again. Ultimatums does not equal 'free will', so will you stop with that already?

GodsChild Wrote:Man's fall was so horrible that God in His love for man was sorrowful that He created man, He knew this would also happen and that He would have to destroy most of His creation and start over. His love for man was so great that He did keep on going with His plan. Do not think God was starting over, He knew man would fall this far, and knew He would need to destroy the world, this also was in His plan because of free will.

That reeks of incompetence. God, in his all perfectness, knew the fall would happen, and even though it sorrowed him, he chose to do nothing about it. Since he did nothing then, he realized that later on he would have to drown almost all of the human race. He feels so bad about that, he promises never to flood the earth again and gives us the rainbow as a sign of that pact.

Yaweh is lucky he's the only god, because he would have been canned and replaced for such a sloppy performance if a replacement was to be found.

Quote:Man's fall was so horrible that God in His love for man was sorrowful that He created man,

How come the fuckhead didn't know in advance how it would turn out? How can you be "sorrowful" if you know exactly what is going to happen.

It is these little blunders that totally demolish your myth.

The vibe I'm getting from all this is that the biblegod's Will must ultimately triumph, because it knows how things will play out from beginning to end and has chosen to reveal the story to us mortals (including that spoiler ending). Yet at the same time, we mere mortals who cannot even begin to hope to understand even a scintilla of this Grand Design can throw a spanner into the works simply by being what we were created to be. In any other context this sort of thing would be called a plot hole.

(Bonus kudos if anyone can spot the hidden Godwin.)

(May 29, 2012 at 1:06 pm)FallentoReason Wrote:

Godschild Wrote:Didn't know there was a talking snake in scripture, oh, I guess you must be talking about the serpent. God knew the fall was going to happen, so yes this is part of His plan, would He prefer the fall never happened, yes, but God knew with free will in the plan that the fall would happen.

There's an apparent contradiction in the bolded section.

Let's say that you could see into the future. You see something within the next 5 minutes that e.g. will be lethal to your well being. In all your power, you would try and avoid it right, because you would rather not go through that. Well, by the same token if God would have instead not have us suffer, then he can't be all-powerful because he didn't prevent that from happening.

The plan is not about us having to suffer, it's that we would suffer because of our misuse of our free will.
You're saying God can't be all powerful because He allows the plan to continue, on the contrary, He is all powerful because His plan does not need to be changed.

As for your little supposition, what if you could see that to save yourself would cause the death of many others, then what, be selfish and save your self or give of your self and save the many?

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(May 29, 2012 at 1:32 pm)Stimbo Wrote: The vibe I'm getting from all this is that the biblegod's Will must ultimately triumph, because it knows how things will play out from beginning to end and has chosen to reveal the story to us mortals (including that spoiler ending). Yet at the same time, we mere mortals who cannot even begin to hope to understand even a scintilla of this Grand Design can throw a spanner into the works simply by being what we were created to be. In any other context this sort of thing would be called a plot hole.

(Bonus kudos if anyone can spot the hidden Godwin.)

What were we suppose to be in your belief? Also how is it you think a mere mortal can throw a wrench in God's plan?

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(May 29, 2012 at 1:15 pm)Kayenneh Wrote: I've said it before, I'll say it again. Ultimatums does not equal 'free will', so will you stop with that already?

NO!

Was the "fall" part of gods plan? This road leads only to tears. If so, created to die and be damned. If not, monkey-wrenched. I'd prefer that my god wasn't a douche or a fuck-up, but clearly we aren't all so picky.

(May 29, 2012 at 1:59 pm)Godschild Wrote: What were we suppose to be in your belief?

I have no belief in what we were supposed to be other than to follow our genetic heritage and be humans. I'm sorry, your question confuses me.

Quote:Also how is it you think a mere mortal can throw a wrench in God's plan?

Eve ate fruit she was explicitly told not to, scuppering God's idea of Eden thus causing 'him' to expel his creations and close the garden.

The entire population of the Earth devolved into 'sin' to the extent that God regretted ever creating them in the first place, causing 'him' to commit genocide on a global scale with the special exception of the world's greatest menagerie and a control group of chosen élite. Immediately after the atrocity, God's representative of the best of the human race got completely out of his head on homebrew and may or may not have indulged in a particularly juicy bit of Ham (but that's another story).

In fact let's forget the book altogether for the moment. Every prayer, every curse, every petition for divine intervention is an attempt to rewire God's plan in favour of the petitioner or against his enemies.

(May 29, 2012 at 1:32 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (Bonus kudos if anyone can spot the hidden Godwin.)

Quote:Will must ultimately triumph

Right there.

Give that sea monster a cigar!

(Polls are now closed)

Quote: Also how is it you think a mere mortal can throw a wrench in God's plan?


Eve ate fruit she was explicitly told not to, scuppering God's idea of Eden thus causing 'him' to expel his creations and close the garden.

That silly twat!