I can feel your anger

[CliveStaples]

Actually they have a capitalist belief system, in that they desire capital. If someone says "I believe there's a god and I'm killing you for your wallet" it doesn't mean their belief entails the necessity for murder for money...in other words they're theistic capitalists. And murderers, obviously. There is no justification in either of those sentiments for murdering someone for their money. I am curious as to where you got that idea.

You're making a lot of stuff up, here.

I never claimed that if someone says, "I believe there's a god and I'm killing you for your wallet", then their beliefs entail the necessity of murder for money. That's pretty clearly false--why would murder be the only way of getting money??

The question is whether they justify their actions with some sort of theistic belief or with an atheistic one--by which I mean, a belief (or set of beliefs) that does not include or imply "At least one god exists".

NExcept that, again, there was no justification. Sorry, but the argument falls apart with its foundations being made out of sand. o__o

Nice completely pointless metaphor, but I wasn't saying that what they were doing was actually justified, or that I believed it to be justified. I was talking about how they would justify it.

I wouldn't even say either of these men had a worldview of anything more than just their own desire for power.

Hmm. That seems like a thoroughly secular desire, yes? Shouldn't we hang their crimes on the neck of Secularism?

I mean, if their motivation was thoroughly sacred--i.e., theistic--then you'd feel justified hanging their crimes on the neck of Theism, yes?

I DON'T blame theism for the faults of Catholicism: I blame Catholicism for the faults of Catholicism. I just also have yet to see a theistic institution [an organized one mind you] that is not amoral/immoral in some large ways while pretending it is a moral paragon.

Welcome to the real world. It's full of assholes who think they're good people.

Belief and unbelief, you mean. Atheism, if I may be frank, is the default position. Theism makes the claim, and atheism in the broadest sense basically rejects that claim, and the reasons for it doing so are actually very reasonable.

"Unbelief"? It's easier for me to think of it in terms of beliefs you affirm. Either the set of beliefs you affirm includes "There exists at least one god", or it doesn't. I don't see the need to set up a set of 'un-beliefs'.

Let me put it like this: Christians reject 9,999 gods. When you understand why they do so, you'll understand why I reject just one more.

What a really nice, tired cliche that contributes nothing to the discussion.

---

As if protestantism didn't have its own trick bag of atrocities.

So not the point right now. Do you really expect me to exhaustively list every possible example?

---

Stalin trained as a seminarian. You should hate your own xtard religion for him.

Because we all know that everyone who trains as a seminarian remains a Christian for the rest of their lives. And we all know that any evil a person does is directly a result of some religious institution! It's so simple! Everyone who disagrees with you is just a fucking retard!


Shouldn't you be busy fucking your dad right now? You'd be doing humanity a much bigger favor by staying off the internet as much as possible.

And both Stalin and Pol Pot were ideologues and very much the object of worship of their own self-made "religions". Their anti-religion stances were the product of the competition over control over credulous idiots like you that religions pose.

Oh, a secular 'religion', you mean? I thought those didn't exist.