(July 6, 2012 at 1:57 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:lol, I'm going to apologize to the OP at this point for douchejacking the thread, I figured this would happen.(July 6, 2012 at 1:55 pm)ktulu Wrote: hehe, yes, that is the conclusion, but it is question begging because you are using it in your premise.
Everything that begins to exist must have a Cause.
Everything that doesn't begin to exist, doesn't have a Cause.
Can you see a distinction between the statements? I believe both of these are true.
If something didn't begin to exist, it would be eternal, not in need of a cause.
If something began to exist, it would be in need of a cause.
Ok, let's see. where to begin. First of all, we were arguing about how sound an argument is logically, not your preference, or your perception. What you wrote is not a logical argument so I won't bother to refute it.
Here's a little tidbit of reply though. Causation is a temporal phenomena. You have matter in state A , then you have a cause, and then you have matter in state B. Since time is a property of the universe, what you are looking for is THE CAUSE, not A CAUSE (do you see the distinction?), meaning god, meaning an undefined entity.
Here's something else that is wrong with your ... argument? Every one thing that begins to exist has a cause. Meaning that everything within the universe has a cause. The universe is not a thing, it is the set of all things. See Russell's paradox regarding sets. Therefore the argument fails because you are making a categorical equivocation. Here's your argument now.
1. all Smardorfs that exist are purple
2. Marsrdorfs exist.
c. Marsrdorfs are purple.