Thoughts on Atheism (and a plea to the religious)

[CliveStaples]

I'm not saying science is better because religion makes you believe unpleasant things. I'm only saying that science doesn't threaten punishment. Nature doesn't make decisions.

Which is irrelevant to whether religion is true.

I didn't leave the faith because of any single scientific work, but because it made more sense to me on the whole. If you recall, I left because of what I was being taught by the church. The science came afterward.

I think science makes sense on the whole, too. I don't think it conflicts with my religious beliefs. The idea that scientific knowledge is incompatible with religious belief seems unlikely, to me; I know Christian physicists, geneticists, and mathematicians who have no trouble maintaining their religious beliefs in light of their scientific understanding.

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I think your framework of reasoning can't even be labelled as reasoning then because somehow you've reasoned that reasoning itself can't be justified (ironic).

It's called mathematical logic. The result I was referring to with regard to logic can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del'...s_theorems

Can I ask, how do you manage to stay alive? Is it pure chance that you grab a slice of bread and for no apparent reason put it in this metal device that cooks it on either side? Your entire logic seems to suggest you don't have the slightest clue of what reality is.

Your very own life should be a testimony that you actually do know a thing or two about reality.

Well, I have certain beliefs about reality. I act in accordance with those beliefs. I think that there are external objects, that there is a material universe, and so forth.

I'm not arguing that any of that is wrong--which is what you seem to be accusing me of. I'm asking a different question, which is how you can claim to know that those beliefs are, in fact, true.

I didn't argue that your memories are false; I asked you how you know that they're true.


Now, these kind of questions can be problematic for evidentialists. Because it seems like there really isn't any evidence that would show that our memories are accurate, or that the universe wasn't created five minutes ago with the appearance of age. I suspect that these are a kind of belief that is both reasonable to hold, and yet cannot be supported with evidence.