Facing the Morally Bad Future

[FallentoReason]

But they are actually not a part of what Mark was 'teaching'. It's heretical.

Who says it's heretical, I know of no one in the Christian community that has a problem with them.

The Christian community of today is not who I'm referring to. I'm referring to the fathers of Christianity; they would have said it's heretical. I don't know if you're subconsciously dodging the bullet here, but I'll make myself clear again: we are essentially discussing the meaning of the Gospels from the perspective of the authors which means that saying 'no Christian would agree with that today' holds absolutely no weight. My whole point in this discussion is that we, believer and non-believer alike, do not know the true meaning of these manuscripts.

Josephus stated that Jesus was killed by Pilot, how do you crucify a allegory. Josephus was speaking of a real persons in Pilot and Jesus. This statement by Josephus is accepted as one written by him. He also said Jesus was the brother of Jude (do I have the correct name). So how does an allegory need a brother, especially when you refer to a spiritual Christ, this would mean God had more than one Son.

You're referencing the bit that Eusebius added on. Nothing to be seen here.

Josephus knew quite a few people named 'Jesus':

1. Jesus, son of Phabet - priest
2. Jesus, son of Ananus - prophesied the destruction of the temple.
3. Jesus, or Jason
4. Jesus, son of Sapphias, governor of Tiberias
5. Jesus, brother of Onias - priest
6. Jesus, son of Gamaliel - priest
7. Jesus, eldest priest after Ananus - priest
8. Jesus, son of Damneus - priest
9. Jesus, son of Gamala (Josephus’ friend)
10. Jesus, [or Joshua] son of Nun
11. Jesus, son of Saphet - ringleader of robbers
12. Jesus, son of Thebuthus - priest
13. Jesus, son of Josedek
14. Jesus of Galilee & his 600 followers
15. Jesus, the Christ (dubious reference)


The website gives an explanation of why the one that appears to be the Messiah can't be.

http://carrington-arts.com/cliff/JOEGOS2.htm


Josephus' work that I mentioned before could actually have been written before Mark. Josephus' work was written mid 60s.

Everyone knew of several Jesus, what does that have to do with anything, and as you have shown they were referred by names other than the Christ. Do not have time to read the link but will.

The link explains why this matters.

Josephus had to accomplished a great deal in a short time. He was born in 37AD, had to grow up, start and finish a military career and then write history all in less than 30 years, seems a stretch to me.

Yet it happened. It's history.

I have shown time and time again that the life of Christ has been taken from the OT. Like the part about the fig tree + driving the people out of the temple being an allegory to Hosea 9 and what Christ said on the cross being the exact words of Psalm 22:1.

Of course they line up, that's what prophecies are about, foretelling the future.

The tragic thing is that these two examples I gave aren't even prophecies. Nowhere in the OT does it say ''the Messiah will say 'my god, my god, why have you forsaken me?''' Nor does it say 'the Messiah will walk up to a fig tree'. It's just a trivial part of Jesus' life and it was taken directly from the OT. I know that you know these examples weren't prophecies that got fulfilled

Did you read the entire Psalm, you should and carefully, even if you do not think it's a prophecy and the Jews did not we know that, they would have never believed in a suffering Messiah, who is the Psalm about?

I gather it is about a Jew who is 'suffering'. This is rather reassuring of my view because Mark never claims that Jesus was divine. He suffered, died and stayed dead seeing as though it ends at 16:8. Therefore this parallel with Psalms is actually in my favour.

Hosea 9 is about God scattering the nation of Israel punishment for turning away from Him, the One who made them a nation. I really can not see how you got anything about Christ from it.

You're looking at it in the wrong direction. I didn't go from NT to OT and ask 'how does this parallel relate to Christ'? I've realised that the OT gave the NT authors the material that would become the fictional character of Jesus. Christ is an allegory.

There are many prophecies about Jesus in the OT, Hosea 9 is not one of them, How is it you say I identified specific prophecy, I never gave any specific prophecies. What I did say was that the Apostles used these OT prophecies to preach about Jesus. I have a question for you, why would the Jews ever claim that Jesus was the Messiah, that is the One written about in the NT, this Messiah would have been a failure according to the Jewish belief, the Messiah would not be in conflict with the priest and other religious leaders according to their belief.

I'm actually not too sure. I think this is a question for an observant Jew.

What I do know is that it's perfectly fine to call Jesus the Messiah if all he is is an allegory. There was a different purpose to Mark than record the apparent history of a failed Messiah, which according to you is unacceptable.

Pretty sure the pharisees looked up to Josephus, as described in his biography:

Moreover, when I was a child, about fourteen years of age, I was commended by all for the love I had for learning; on which account the high priests and principle men of the city came then frequently to me together, in order to know my opinion about the accurate understanding of points of the law.

Any proof of this other than what the man said about himself, you can not use the man's own writings to prove who he is. I think they saw him as a traitor, he sold out his own people to get into the graces of the Romans.

Given all the parallels between Josephus' life and Mark, I'm very tempted to say the proof is overwhelming.

And a lightbulb should also have turned on right after reading that. This is strikingly similar to what's in Luke:

Luke 2:41-47
Now every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the festival of the Passover. {42} And when he was twelve years old, they went up as usual for the festival... When they did not find him, they returned to Jerusalem to search for him. {46} After three days they found him in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. {47} And all who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers.


http://carrington-arts.com/cliff/JOEGOS2.htm

For Mark to have compared Christ to Josephus would be an insult to even a lesser god.

Or maybe Christ wasn't real but an allegory.