RE: Reasons to despise " god " ( in the almost zero possibility of he/she/its existen
November 2, 2008 at 9:32 pm
(This post was last modified: November 2, 2008 at 10:00 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(November 2, 2008 at 6:58 pm)bozo Wrote:I don't despise God. I can't despise something that I believe doesn't exist.(November 1, 2008 at 8:55 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote:(November 1, 2008 at 8:32 pm)bozo Wrote:He almost certainly is incapable of having one. Since he almost certainly doesn't exist. IF he does exist, I have no idea what his opinion is because what God is he? What rules does he have? He could be anything conceivable or perhaps even inconceivable whatsoever if he exists. And therefore the same would go for his opinion, it could be anything.(October 31, 2008 at 11:00 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote:So what's " god's " opinion then?(October 31, 2008 at 5:30 pm)bozo Wrote:But in reality neither of them go to hell or heaven and not all Christians believe that the serial killer would go to heaven and the atheist to hell. If the atheist is/was a good person then some Christians would think that the atheist may even go to heaven and I'm sure that some Christians would certainly at least also send the serial-killer to hell too. Just having faith in God, even if its 100% faith, is not enough for all Christians certainly, there are many Christians that think even though his faith is at the maximum, the serial-killer would still need to be a much better person and to never have done such horrible things in order to get into heaven. Surely?(October 31, 2008 at 9:24 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote:(October 31, 2008 at 9:12 am)leo-rcc Wrote: I'd agree with you if every religion and denomination would work that way, but they don't all do that.Yeah, and for example, Christians interpret the bible differently, so there are Christians who don't believe bozos example of course. There are Christians who although believing in God they still think moral goodness as a whole is the bible's message. And a more important part of the bible than the whole "believe" thing, although they would probably take that very seriously too of course.
If anything the notion of punishment after death is much stronger with theists then atheists. After all, when we die, we assume it is over (apart from the atheists believing in re-incarnation of course). No hell, no punishment.
With respect guys, I think you miss my point, which is that a serial killer ( pretty heavy? ) will be pardoned and welcomed by " god " despite the heinous crimes committed, whereas someone who doesn't accept " god " will be damned despite being innocent of any heavy stuff. It pisses me right off when I read reports of all those convicted of crimes who promptly " find god " as soon as they go inside.
The conclusion to be drawn is that " god " welcomes anyone prepared to worship him/her/it above anything else.
So thats what I mean.
Of course, if you are talking about the Christian God the same things still apply, just to a slightly less extent. The bible can be interpreted in so many ways and his opinion could perhaps still be virtually anything IF he does exist.
Especially considering how unlikely it is that the Christian God or any God exists, he perhaps would have to go against logic in order to exist. So the bible could be full of lies even if the Christian Yahweh does exist.
So I still have no idea what God's opinion is even if he does exist AND he is Christian. How should I know?
I guess if we assume that IF God exists, not only does he exist and is the Christian God but also everything in the bible is 100% literally true. Well I still don't know what his opinion is but I understand that it is almost certainly something very sick twisted and evil considering what Yahweh is like.
"However!" if only the New Testament is to be followed, then since Jesus says he doesn't wish to go against the Old Testament but he thinks it is all great and wants to fulfill it all, then God's opinion is probably still sick twisted and evil.
But once again, even literal interpretations can be disputed, how do we actually know what God means literally even IF the words of the bible was indeed 100% true?
But thats what I think anyway.
Like I said: How should I know?
From the exchanges we have had since I first posted my explanation of the relevance of my screenname i.e. Orwell's embittered atheist, you have repeatedly stated that you find god's existence to be so remote as to not worth considering. I respect that, but I still am a 6 on the Dawkins scale. Now then, as regards despising god, you seem reluctant so to do. Your posts approach my point from the christians' attitude to dealing with atheists/serial killers.
Now I'm no shrink, but I suggest that if god actually exists and you get to meet him, you'll fall to your knees in repentance.....you've had your proof.
What say you?
Faith however, I think is outrageously ignorant overall and can be very bad for the world.
Quote:The Dawkins scale is deeply flawed because Richard Dawkins does not understand the word "agnostic" (at least not when he wrote his book).I thought he made it clear that there are two kinds of agnosticism. PAP: permanent agnosticism is principle, which means those who do not only believe you can't be certain either way to whether God exists or not, but they believe you can't even put an estimated probability on his existence, never mind an accurate one. And there are those who are TAP agnostics: Temporary agnosticism in practice. He says that basically 1 and 7 on the scale are gnostic and the rest are TAP. He also says that PAP can't be put on the scale because they don't think you can put a probability on the existence of God, nor can you know he does or doesn't exist. I quote Dawkins from TGD (the paperback edition) chapter 2, the God Hypothesis, about a page after the spectrum he says:
"The spectrum of probabilities works well for TAP (temporary agnosticism in practice). It is superficially tempting to place PAP (permanent agnosticism in principle) in the middle of the spectrum, with a 50 per cent probability of God's existence, but this is not correct. PAP agnostics aver that we cannot say anything, one way or the other, on the question of whether or not God exists. The question, for PAP agnostics, is in principle unanswerable, and they should strictly refuse to place themselves anywhere on the spectrum of probabilities. The fact that I cannot know whether your red is the same as my green doesn't make the probability 50 per cent. The proposition on offer is too meaningless to be dignified with a probability. Nevertheless, it is a common error, which we shall meet again, to leap from the premise that the question of God's existence is in principle unanswerable to the conclusion that his existence and his non-existence are equiprobable."
I thought Dawkins made it clear that agnosticism is NOT just a halfway point between atheism and theism.
PAP is agnosticism and all on the Dawkins' scale are a different degree of TAP agnosticism except 1 and 7 because those are opposite ends of total strong gnosticism. 1 is very strong gnostic theist, 7 is very strong gnostic atheist, the rest are TAP agnosticism. Except for PAP of course with isn't on the scale.