Better reasons to quit Christianity

[The Grand Nudger]

I believe you missed my point. I'm not suggesting omniscience is knowing what will be; I'm wondering if omniscience is knowing what the possibilities are. The distinction between the actual and the possible is significant, I think. Also, whatever the outcome of our discussion, as I said before, I will not be troubled. I'm here to find out the truth about whether God exists, not to prove to anyone he does. The only one I'm trying to convince is myself.

The Guessing God hypothesis. Thanks, I'll pass. Not quite what we hope for from "omniscience" btw, is it? If you're only looking to convince yourself...I'd say that you've been pretty successful on that count, wouldn't you? I have, nowehere on these boards, seen you acknowledge a single trouble aspect of the existence of this god. Sure, you may wonder if we have all the particulars of the narrative entirely correct, but in each and every case, the assumption is implicit from the very beginning that this creature exists. Why? I've never seen anyone (so I can't single you out) field anything even remotely resembling a coherent thought on this count, and yet the notion persists.

Sorry for being vague. I should have said, "You say, 'If there is a God who is a precog... .'"

....then our fates are predestined, not because there is a god, not because this god is a precog, not because of any effect of precognition or this god, not because scripture says so, and not because I want it to be or even agree with it, but because of the requirements of precognition.

Now, are you going to take a crack at explaining to me why the narrative of free will, salvation, and damnation is anything other than cruel cosmic theatre in light of this? Or would you rather, as I have suggested, propose that god just might not be a fortune-teller after all (as per the above....and I'm still wondering about the whole cosmic theatre bit, as a guessing god that sets up such a system is an equally troubling creature)? You have mentioned Calvinists a couple of times in reference to this particular problem, let me just say, the Calvinist response to this problem is easily the most callous and indifferent response I have ever seen offered. It's a brave stance, granted, but utterly and completely horrid.

Now, again, assuming that the whole bit is a factually accurate representation of reality - we would have no choice in the matter of our salvation or damnation, but I get the feeling that you and I are both found of at least pretending that we have -some- choices...even if this is not among them. Do we not have a choice as to what we will accept as goodness, or righteousness, or qualities worthy of worship and reverence?

Are we are to accept from the divine what we would not tolerate of each other, simply because we are powerless in the face of this creature's abilities.....?

(This is honestly the heart of my opinion on the matter. The status of the existence of the god you propose is not an open question to me. I am not an anti-theist because I do not believe, or because I have an issue with people believing in things which I personally characterize as childish superstition, but because of the concessions one must ultimately make -or avoid consideration of entirely- in proposing those beliefs-as-fact. I see depravity, callousness, indifference..and dare I use the phrase...abject evil embedded in the very notions that we see so often put forward as hypotheses of the divine. They seem to me, in almost all cases, to be the cruelest mirror of our own worst qualities that we could possibly engineer. I would not require any other reason to "quit christianity" - were I ever a christian to begin with. It would be completely irrelevant to me whether or not such a creature existed, and amusingly, such is already the case - in my case.)