To any Muslim who may read this, or any arab of any religious label, or former Muslim, please respond in this post. Now before you read this please keep in mind that I will always support anyone's right to protest in non violent ways. I support freedom of religion, not as claims, but as a human right all goverments should protect.
By now the world knows about the Ambassador in Lybia being murdered, along with other Americans and 14 Muslims protecting them, and not even over a film they made, but right wing nutcase Christian here in the states.
To those who use violent protest what do you hope to acchieve , because I can tell you the west wont suddenly bow to voilence. It only surves to fan the flames of stereotypes and fear which becomes a vicious cycle of us vs them.
In the west our pluralistic socieity has learned to live without violence, with hearing and seeing offensive things. Christians and Jews see things like "The Piss Crist" and Jews have been accused of monopolies of media and was even feared by President Nixion. As an Atheist I have been equated to Hitler and Stalin and being immoral merely for not believing in any god.
No one likes to have their beliefs picked on. But what is better for humanity? Getting violent when we hear or see things we don't like? I see that as doing nothing but causing more division and fear and death. The Middle East is still way behind the west in tollerance and causes needless casims because of "honor".
I can promise without a doubt that things can get better for all parties involved when we allow offensive speech and demand any response to that offensive speech be strictly non violent. If the East wants the west to back off, I promise we are more than willing to, but not out of fear and not out of submission. We will only back off when the east gets to the same point of pluralism and protection of dissent. Part of freedom is sometimes hearing things you don't like.
A little look at American history and even the history of Christianty should show that Christianity once behaived as violently as some in Islam. It was only the idea of secularism and the common law of free speech and a ban on violence or calls to violence, that we learned to live peacefully. Christianity and europe and eventually the colonies escaped the tribalism over time.
But you need to face facts, and even some Christians and Jews do to. There are no labels and borders, or politics, or religions, in evolution. The fact is there is only ONE PLANET we all live on. There are 7 billion of us and to use violence to demand people never offend you, is nothing short of childish schoolyard bullying.
No one here is asking you to like the film that lead to this. No one here is asking you not to protest the film. All the west wants is for Muslims to stop killing people over merely being offended. We promise it CAN and will get better when you simply stick to using your voices and stop using weapons.
I've seen Muslims burn flags, fine, but stick to that. How is murdering another fellow human going to make that dead person's family want to listen to you?
The west does, outside of government and politics, but as individuals, wants to live in a peaceful world. I'd suggest you stop using your religion as a weapon, and if one is to respond to offensive things, respond to that individual who offended you, not with violence, but with your voice.
The days of conqest are over. The world is too small and there is no room for anyone on any side to create some asbolute power over the other. You only serve to cause more violence and death. If you say you want peace, the power is in your hands and CAN be accheaved quite easly by denouncing all violent protest.
George Washington was once asked in a letter what religion he wanted his contracter to be to build Mt Vernon. His response was basically "I don't care" and they could be anything including a Muslim as long as they did a good job.
He and the rest of the founders handed America something the world had not seen to that degree before. The concept that what we have in common is greater than our differences.
And Jefferson in response to the issue of "respect" and "honor" of politicians Adams had written to him, Adams was appauled at the treatment of all polticians. Jefferson in much more eloquent words than I am conveying here basically responded to him "That is the price you pay for living in a free society, sometimes you are going to hear things that offend you".
If any Muslim reading this thinks it is impractical to end Islam by force, I agree. But just as impractical for any political or religious label, is to use violence to protest. I was horrified to hear that a Sikh right after 9/11 was murdered and mistaken for a Muslim. I was horrified by the carpet bombing of Lebenon that killed both Muslims and Arab Christians.
While true, no matter what boarders Muslims or Christians or Jews or anyone, can stop fully the responses our governments have to the "enemy", we can as individuals, see ourselves as such, despite what our governments do. I can and will reach out to any human, even if what that human claims, I may find absurd, who values the voice and allows for others the same right to complain or criticise others.
It is my hope for the east that violence is replaced with non violent protest. It is my hope that the Muslim and Christian and Jew worldwide have a planet where non violence is the social norm.
Words, even when they offend us, do not have to lead to murder. When someone offends me, and they have, I simply respond with words only, or I simply walk away from the situation. I have no doubt that if more Muslims in the world did that, rather than use violence, things will get better worldwide.
We are humans first. Muslims, Christians, Jews, Atheists, Chinese, Mexicans, and every mountan, and vally, every big city and rual farm, is occupied by people with families, and loved ones. Full of sons, fathers, mothers daughters, sisters and brothers. I think it serves humaity far better to tollerate offensive speech, in order to protect our desire to be free from physical violence. No point in human history has there been a time when one party or one person or one individual didn't say something that offended someone else.
I promise peace can be accheived, but violent protest has not worked and will not work. It didn't bring peace to Ireland. It was only after decades of murder on both sides, that both got tired of it. It doesn't impress me as a pro choice advocate when a Christian murders and abortion doctor. And Muslim violence wont impress me either.
But it is way past time we all realize that the COMMON GROUND we all have is that we are all humans and all humans don't like being physically harmed. If Islam wants to prove to the west it is above voilence, they have the power to lead by example. If the worst any human has to suffer is being offended, it is a far better proposition than the finality of death no one wants.
So to any Muslim reading this, please respond and explain what you think your are gaining by supporting violent protest?
By now the world knows about the Ambassador in Lybia being murdered, along with other Americans and 14 Muslims protecting them, and not even over a film they made, but right wing nutcase Christian here in the states.
To those who use violent protest what do you hope to acchieve , because I can tell you the west wont suddenly bow to voilence. It only surves to fan the flames of stereotypes and fear which becomes a vicious cycle of us vs them.
In the west our pluralistic socieity has learned to live without violence, with hearing and seeing offensive things. Christians and Jews see things like "The Piss Crist" and Jews have been accused of monopolies of media and was even feared by President Nixion. As an Atheist I have been equated to Hitler and Stalin and being immoral merely for not believing in any god.
No one likes to have their beliefs picked on. But what is better for humanity? Getting violent when we hear or see things we don't like? I see that as doing nothing but causing more division and fear and death. The Middle East is still way behind the west in tollerance and causes needless casims because of "honor".
I can promise without a doubt that things can get better for all parties involved when we allow offensive speech and demand any response to that offensive speech be strictly non violent. If the East wants the west to back off, I promise we are more than willing to, but not out of fear and not out of submission. We will only back off when the east gets to the same point of pluralism and protection of dissent. Part of freedom is sometimes hearing things you don't like.
A little look at American history and even the history of Christianty should show that Christianity once behaived as violently as some in Islam. It was only the idea of secularism and the common law of free speech and a ban on violence or calls to violence, that we learned to live peacefully. Christianity and europe and eventually the colonies escaped the tribalism over time.
But you need to face facts, and even some Christians and Jews do to. There are no labels and borders, or politics, or religions, in evolution. The fact is there is only ONE PLANET we all live on. There are 7 billion of us and to use violence to demand people never offend you, is nothing short of childish schoolyard bullying.
No one here is asking you to like the film that lead to this. No one here is asking you not to protest the film. All the west wants is for Muslims to stop killing people over merely being offended. We promise it CAN and will get better when you simply stick to using your voices and stop using weapons.
I've seen Muslims burn flags, fine, but stick to that. How is murdering another fellow human going to make that dead person's family want to listen to you?
The west does, outside of government and politics, but as individuals, wants to live in a peaceful world. I'd suggest you stop using your religion as a weapon, and if one is to respond to offensive things, respond to that individual who offended you, not with violence, but with your voice.
The days of conqest are over. The world is too small and there is no room for anyone on any side to create some asbolute power over the other. You only serve to cause more violence and death. If you say you want peace, the power is in your hands and CAN be accheaved quite easly by denouncing all violent protest.
George Washington was once asked in a letter what religion he wanted his contracter to be to build Mt Vernon. His response was basically "I don't care" and they could be anything including a Muslim as long as they did a good job.
He and the rest of the founders handed America something the world had not seen to that degree before. The concept that what we have in common is greater than our differences.
And Jefferson in response to the issue of "respect" and "honor" of politicians Adams had written to him, Adams was appauled at the treatment of all polticians. Jefferson in much more eloquent words than I am conveying here basically responded to him "That is the price you pay for living in a free society, sometimes you are going to hear things that offend you".
If any Muslim reading this thinks it is impractical to end Islam by force, I agree. But just as impractical for any political or religious label, is to use violence to protest. I was horrified to hear that a Sikh right after 9/11 was murdered and mistaken for a Muslim. I was horrified by the carpet bombing of Lebenon that killed both Muslims and Arab Christians.
While true, no matter what boarders Muslims or Christians or Jews or anyone, can stop fully the responses our governments have to the "enemy", we can as individuals, see ourselves as such, despite what our governments do. I can and will reach out to any human, even if what that human claims, I may find absurd, who values the voice and allows for others the same right to complain or criticise others.
It is my hope for the east that violence is replaced with non violent protest. It is my hope that the Muslim and Christian and Jew worldwide have a planet where non violence is the social norm.
Words, even when they offend us, do not have to lead to murder. When someone offends me, and they have, I simply respond with words only, or I simply walk away from the situation. I have no doubt that if more Muslims in the world did that, rather than use violence, things will get better worldwide.
We are humans first. Muslims, Christians, Jews, Atheists, Chinese, Mexicans, and every mountan, and vally, every big city and rual farm, is occupied by people with families, and loved ones. Full of sons, fathers, mothers daughters, sisters and brothers. I think it serves humaity far better to tollerate offensive speech, in order to protect our desire to be free from physical violence. No point in human history has there been a time when one party or one person or one individual didn't say something that offended someone else.
I promise peace can be accheived, but violent protest has not worked and will not work. It didn't bring peace to Ireland. It was only after decades of murder on both sides, that both got tired of it. It doesn't impress me as a pro choice advocate when a Christian murders and abortion doctor. And Muslim violence wont impress me either.
But it is way past time we all realize that the COMMON GROUND we all have is that we are all humans and all humans don't like being physically harmed. If Islam wants to prove to the west it is above voilence, they have the power to lead by example. If the worst any human has to suffer is being offended, it is a far better proposition than the finality of death no one wants.
So to any Muslim reading this, please respond and explain what you think your are gaining by supporting violent protest?
