(September 18, 2009 at 2:31 am)theblindferrengi Wrote: In 1939, the big bang theory was based upon relativity, which does not as well model the space time continuum. The current version of the big bang theory that incorporates quantum mechanics, that more acurately model the space-time continuum.This does nothing to refute the point that time is not considered to have existing before the Big Bang, and in that respect there was no "before" the Big Bang since time is necessary for "before" to even exist. There are currently two trains of scientific thought; the majority still sides with the observation that the Big Bang was a sudden expansion of spacetime, and that "before" the Big Bang there was no time, and all space was contained within an infinitely small point. The second and less supported theory is M-theory, which involves extra-dimensional membranes that collide and produce universes with each collision. The reason this idea is not supported is because so far any science based off "string theory" cannot reasonably be called anything more than a hypothesis given that string theory is not testable or observable (yet).
(September 18, 2009 at 2:31 am)theblindferrengi Wrote:That didn't add any context at all. The observation that other galaxies exist and the evidence for the expansion of the universe has nothing to do with the idea that time did not exist before the Big Bang.Wikipedia also Wrote:In 1924, Edwin Hubble's measurement of the great distance to the nearest spiral nebulae showed that these systems were indeed other galaxies. Independently deriving Friedmann's equations in 1927, Georges Lemaître, a Belgian physicist and Roman Catholic priest, predicted that the recession of the nebulae was due to the expansion of the universe.
The wikiquote Adrian posted lacked context, just thought I'd add some, it is a very interesting and well-worth reading article. Big Bang - Wikipedia
(September 18, 2009 at 2:31 am)theblindferrengi Wrote: Schools mostly teach the general relativity model of space-time, because it is easier to understand than some of the more up-to-date theorys like quantum loop gravity, or string theory. It is because of this that books about relativity are more common than books about the much newer theorys, even though the new unification theorys do exactly that, they provide a mathematical model for the entire space-time continuum, not just pieces of it as reletivity does.Again, nothing to do with the actual point being discussed. As previously stated, string "theory" is only a hypothesis, as is M-theory. It has no evidence whatsoever other than mathematical models, but mathematical models do not make it science. Science grounds itself on the testable and observable, and the current theories surrounding the Big Bang are based on this, and confirm the idea that time and space came into existence at the Big Bang.
(September 18, 2009 at 2:31 am)theblindferrengi Wrote: The Big Bang singularity started the expansion of our universe, and in the process, destroyed and re-arranged what was before, that is why we cannot now and never will know of anything before it, it does not mean there was nothing before it; this misconception is simply the easiest way to simply explain the theory to people who's only intrest in it is novely.Incorrect. The Big Bang singularity was the expansion of space-time. The assumption that there was something there before it is only that, and assumption. I agree, it doesn't mean there was nothing there before it, but for you to say that your claim that there was something trumps my claim is a complete contradiction of your point, that "we cannot know". Passing off someone's research and education in the theory as a "novelty" doesn't earn you any points either. If you have evidence to present that there is a logical or materialistic reason to believe there was something before the Big Bang, present it.
(September 18, 2009 at 2:31 am)theblindferrengi Wrote: In response to the last paragraph: I too can repeat what I already said without any supporting facts. This was an idea I had, that i thought might be interesting. It has served its purpose (to provoke conversation) quite well; it is not a belief by me or anyone that i know of, and should not be treated as such.For someone who claims not to believe in what they wrote at the start of the thread, you strive very hard to defend it. Methinks someone just got cold feet when their delusional writings were exposed for what they really were.
Better luck next time.