Human Value Nonexistent?

[genkaus]

Where would value come from?

From your consciousness.

To think that you're life is more valuable than an ant would just to be guilty of speciesism.

Really? You think there is no other difference between you and an ant other than your species?

If there is no objective being to give your life value, then it has no objective value. Any value that you would perceive your life to have would be just an self-deception.

No, it would be subjective value. There is a difference. Just because something is subjective doesn't make it false.

Moreover, the OP quoted Dawkins saying that there exists no good, no evil.

AND ALL OF YOU AGREE WITH THIS?!?!?!?!?!

No, I say there is no external standard for existence of good or evil. All such standards originate form humans.

(the following is from wikipedia on the topic of Nazi Experiments)

Bone, muscle, and nerve transplantation experiments

From about September 1942 to about December 1943 experiments were conducted at the Ravensbrück concentration camp, for the benefit of the German Armed Forces, to study bone, muscle, and nerve regeneration, and bone transplantation from one person to another. Sections of bones, muscles, and nerves were removed from the subjects without use of anesthesia. As a result of these operations, many victims suffered intense agony, mutilation, and permanent disability.

Head injury experiments

In mid-1942 in Baranowicze, occupied Poland, experiments were conducted in a small building behind the private home occupied by Nazi SD Security Service officer, in which "a young boy of eleven or twelve [was] strapped to a chair so he could not move. Above him was a mechanized hammer that every few seconds came down upon his head." The boy was driven insane from the torture.
~~~~~

I also read where pregnant women were used for vivisections.

On atheism, you have no grounds to say that this is wrong.

Yes we do.

Life simply is....you can do what you wish with it.

Your own - not someone else's.

There's nothing wrong with using other humans for science experiments against their will and at the cost of their lives.

Yes, there is. Because it is against their will and costs their lives.

If there is no God, life came from nothing and ends in nothing. Not only do our individual lives end in death, the universe itself will end in a heat death and will go back to being what it was in the beginning...nothing.

All the more reason why what we have now matters so much.

Nothing before the Big Bang, nothing afterwards....we're just this drivel in between nothings. Meaningless, purposeless, valueless.

Not to ourselves.

If there is no God what value could your life possible have?

The value I assign to it.

Perhaps you could benefit the human race? To what end? All ends in nothingness, it would be a fruitless, pointless endeavor anyway. All acts of humanity are ultimately of no consequence.

But they are of consequence right now.

A life lived for pure selfish gain would be equal to a life lived selflessly giving to the human race. Both would end in death.

But the life itself would be different. And that makes all the difference.

Sacrifice is foolish and selfishness is the only logical perspective to approach life with.

I agree.

If there is no God, all things are permissible....our world essentially is Auschwitz.

Nope. Because in Auschwitz, life is not permissible.

If God exists, then you have value because he ascribes value to you.

And why should the value he ascribes mean anything to me?

If God exists then you would have objective value because the objective being gave it to you.

Nope. The value, being dependent on god, would still be subjective.

Your argument seems to be addressing extrinsic value, like sand...if there's a ton it's not really valuable.

It is because there is a ton of it that it is not really valuable.

However, if God exists we have intrinsic value because we are made in His image and those who Jesus died for would have extrinsic value as well because their life would have been purchased by the blood of Jesus, who is Himself God.

If that were the case, we still wouldn't have any value - intrinsic or extrinsic.

God would...and those that wanted to spend eternity with Him would.

You are contradicting yourself. If this life is transient and there is no afterlife, then what happens here doesn't matter. If it is transient but there is an afterlife, then for some reason, it does matter? Either it matters on its own merit or it doesn't - make up your mind.

(I added emphasis)
One shot for what? If atheism is true whatever you do with this life is purposeless.

Nonsense. There is just no externally assigned purpose. Your life can be as purposeful as the purpose you assign to it.

One shot for success? To make a difference?

One shot at living as you like.

If atheism is true, there is no difference to be made and success is no more meaningful than a life spent sitting on the couch.

For you, maybe. For me, getting off my ass and achieving something makes all the difference.

To think otherwise would be to simply deceive yourself with a noble lie.

Atleast a noble lie would be better than the pathetic one you tell yourself everyday.

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I'm not suspicious of anything nor anyone. Instead, I propagate trust.
I do the same for international community. It's not us who breed suspicion. Those of the opposing ideologies do.

Its ironic that a person who's ideological aim is to rule over others is talking about propagating trust.