Human Value Nonexistent?

[festive1]

Weight implies you can measure actions or a person. We believe in that, because without, we wouldn't be able to function as humans. Try as you might, you can't get let go of the belief of a soul. You don't acknowledge a soul intellectually, but you act as if there is.

Soul isn't the word I'd use. A personal essence, if you will. Soul implies a life beyond this one, which I don't believe exists.

We assume the child will grow up, and that child will be an adult. We don't assume the child is dead, and the adult is another person from that child.

Not another person, a palimpsest. Like a pearl. We begin life as a grain of sand, in terms of personality and identity. Then as we gain experience, we also grow, much like that grain of sand inside an oyster. Layer upon layer, until you get what you are at any given time. One cannot run from their past, one always carries the past with them.

Suratal Fatiha takes a genius to write.
First thing it reminds you of is name of God, along with Compassion, and Mercy. (Attraction number 1)
Praise (attraction number 2) belongs to God (justification) (attraction number 3)
Master of day of judgment (you will get to know yourself exactly as you are with objective view of yourself and be rewarded exactly for who you are) (Attraction 3)
Thee do we Worship Thee do We ask for Help (higher purpose, higher greatness existing) (attraction number 4)
Guide us upon the straight path (there is one way to live, and God wil show you that way) (attraction number 5)

I'd say that compassion and mercy are within human experience, not attributable to a deity. To have compassion and mercy for others, especially those who have harmed us, is a secular form of divinity. I reject #2 and #3, because I believe we can only praise ourselves. That wholeness, is attributable to a firm belief in self as human, flaws and good. #4, for me, is all about accepting that life and what happens to us are things beyond our control, not a deity. Giving up and simply accepting will carry one a long way. #5 is one's internal, moral compass, based in one's experience.

What do you think an emotional being would pick?
No justification for praise. No way to know he is not deluded. No way to know he is living with objective maning.
Not knowing there is an objective measurement to who he is.
Religion is attractive. Atheism isn't It's a harsh truth.

I never said religion wasn't attractive. And I agree atheism doesn't provide the comforts of religion. I'm a human. Humans, for the most part, need some sort of delusion, in varying degrees. Nothing is (in emotional terms anyway) 100% objective. It's all based in the individual experience, which is inherently subjective. I think an example would be helpful here. I recently took a statistics class, and got an A. When my mother heard that I received such a score, she said, "I'm surprised, you were never very good at math." In fact, I made top scores in math throughout school, and was in honors courses throughout junior high and high school, and was even awarded for my performance in math by my state's governor. She is deluding herself, amending history. It's not the fact that she's deluding herself I find painful, it's the why behind it. Because the why holds her judgement. The why holds the reasoning behind the delusion. It's a delusion that I can't take a part in. From which comes separation and pain. One can only hold onto oneself, and truth, and forge ahead. It is separation of self that causes the ultimate pain. When the self is too divided, that is when serious problems arise. I feel I am doing a bad job of explaining myself here, but for what it's worth there it is.

What ultimate goal? From who, from where?
You really want to know none of your actions are praiseworthy.
The ultimate enlightenment we are programmed to believe, is to believe in an ultimate praiseworthy being, and that we are ascending towards him, and all the nasty evils in this world, is to bring about "praiseworthy" character.
Only that it's an illogical paradoxical concept

The only being we accept praise from is our own self. If others give us praise and we believe them to be false, we don't truly accept the praise. Instead, we question the praise or discard it.

What is "good"? From what perspective. What if we evolved in a different way. What if we evolved without instinct reliance, but more thinking reliance.
Perhaps the happiest and better way of life is ignorant animals that don't need to think about all these complicated things we need to think about.

But we didn't evolve a different way. To ponder such questions is of little consequence. The only thing that matters is here and now. Reality, as it is. Acceptance.

What bad side? Is there a bad side? Perhaps a depressing side...perhaps a disliked side...but a bad? Again, this perhaps is all inherited from myth based.

Ah, here you cut deep (I'm not wounded, and if I didn't want to discuss this with you I wouldn't). Personally, my "bad side" wants me dead. It is my capacity for self harm and belief that I am worthless. Yes, this is bad. Because it is false. I am not worthless. I have value to my loved ones and to myself. My body will die, I will cease to exist, but I will be remembered. Therefore, I am not worthless.

There maybe no praise, greatness, goodness, beauty to the self. IF there is no soul, perhaps it's impossible. Perhaps this is why most humans cannot but help believe in a soul or that it came together (belief in morals and soul) in evolution of our species.

The only praise humans accept is that which they truly believe they deserve. False praise is rejected. This is a very complex subject, I don't believe in an enduring, eternal soul. I think our intelligence forces us to make things far more complex than what they are in an attempt to make sense of it all.