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Human Value Nonexistent?
RE: Human Value Nonexistent?
(October 29, 2012 at 6:38 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote:
(October 29, 2012 at 6:32 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: [...]the concept of praise exists in me. But is it objective at all?

Well, we're going to have to define "existence". Do we mean by "existence", "real" in the sense of "not-imaginary" or do we simply mean "there"? Your imagination is there, in the sense that you have it, therefore it exists if existence is defined as something being "there". But your imagination is not real in the sense that it is imaginary and imaginary is the opposite of real. And if "real" is also defined as existence, your imagination then does not exist.

When I praise a person, I imagine the person existing, and personhood, that has free-will and that I don't know their exact measurement, but I praise what I perceive of them. Obviously, I don't know the person well enough to know who they are for sure. In fact, it can be all delusion, our perception of everyone and ourselves, can be all wrong. And it seems to be the case, that no one really knows anyone. We only have an image of how they appear to us, but we don't know their nature.

I can have my image of Imam Khomeini, and it would be different from you.

But try as I might, I can't stop myself from judging and having a perception of a person.

When I feel attachment to a childhood friend, I'm assuming it's the same person.

I have a concept of that person.

All this for all we know is a delusion in a total sense. What I mean by a total sense, is that none of has a possible reality behind it.

I am disgusted by behaviour of one person, another person likes it. I am attracted to one personality and another person hates that person.

Who is right here?

Humans are inclined to believe there is an objective judgment to people, but this hasn't been proven.

Any value or praise to a person isn't proven.

You know, I just had a thought. Perhaps Mohammad was one of the most benevolent human beings, in that, he wanted to bring a total delusion to what human is worth.

The belief in you will see your actions on the day of judgment, read your book, and know your actions is exact measurement. That God hand's is above their hands. That God is pleased with believers.

That Angels had to bow down to the first human who had the breathe of God in him. That good Humans are not only higher then animals, but even perfect Angels.

His society was so miserable. Kids were being born of wedlock as the norm, and people were worshipping statues.

"Peace be upon the Messengers" - Who doesn't want peace? "peace be upon you" - who doesn't want peace.

Perpetual blessings. The holy spirit in humanity.

I dunno if I prefer the harsh skepticism world, as opposed to the whole world being convinced by Islam in a total world theocracy. I don't know if I care about freedom and pleasures all that much, then having humans feel they have higher purpose and meaning, and worth that they cannot imagine, as only God truly knows their worth.

So what if it's a delusion? So what if Tabatabai for example had all sort of mystical delusions in his mystic journey.

Is there a really a 'should' do here? Perhaps not, perhaps I am just hard wired to prefer humans live in a happy delusion.

Perhaps the religious leaders we all hate so much now due to "science" and "enlightenment" created the best thing for humanity from perspective of our happiness.

Perhaps Suratal Fatiha is the best invention in Arts, perhaps Quran delusion, is the best for humanity.

I don't know to be honest. All this hate to one another just makes me sad.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Human Value Nonexistent? - by Reasonable_Jeff - October 17, 2012 at 7:45 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 17, 2012 at 7:47 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Anomalocaris - October 17, 2012 at 10:47 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 17, 2012 at 11:37 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 17, 2012 at 8:13 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 17, 2012 at 8:50 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Zen Badger - October 17, 2012 at 9:14 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by jonb - October 17, 2012 at 10:17 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Annik - October 17, 2012 at 11:26 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2012 at 6:19 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Annik - October 29, 2012 at 6:24 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Mister Agenda - October 17, 2012 at 11:33 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Minimalist - October 17, 2012 at 11:37 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by mralstoner - October 17, 2012 at 11:57 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 18, 2012 at 12:02 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Reasonable_Jeff - October 19, 2012 at 6:55 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by jonb - October 19, 2012 at 7:07 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Simon Moon - October 19, 2012 at 7:30 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 19, 2012 at 7:34 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Norfolk And Chance - October 19, 2012 at 8:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 20, 2012 at 4:37 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Whateverist - October 23, 2012 at 9:20 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Angrboda - October 18, 2012 at 1:05 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Ryantology - October 19, 2012 at 7:19 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Cyberman - October 19, 2012 at 7:38 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Ryantology - October 19, 2012 at 7:51 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Hovik - October 19, 2012 at 7:52 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Aroura - October 19, 2012 at 8:57 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 2:24 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by downbeatplumb - October 20, 2012 at 4:11 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Cato - October 20, 2012 at 4:34 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Welsh cake - October 20, 2012 at 6:38 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 20, 2012 at 10:24 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 20, 2012 at 1:37 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 1:40 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 2:02 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Welsh cake - October 20, 2012 at 2:04 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 2:22 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Aroura - October 20, 2012 at 4:02 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 4:05 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Aroura - October 20, 2012 at 4:31 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 2:24 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 2:28 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 2:30 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 2:35 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 2:36 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 3:12 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 3:14 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 3:20 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 3:24 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Welsh cake - October 20, 2012 at 3:22 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 3:26 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 3:36 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 3:47 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 3:57 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 4:10 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 4:22 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 4:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 4:35 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by jonb - October 20, 2012 at 7:13 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Angrboda - October 23, 2012 at 4:30 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by pocaracas - October 23, 2012 at 6:11 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 6:38 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 28, 2012 at 6:44 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 7:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Utracia - October 28, 2012 at 10:04 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 10:29 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 28, 2012 at 10:33 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 10:44 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by festive1 - October 28, 2012 at 10:52 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 11:13 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by festive1 - October 28, 2012 at 11:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 11:39 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - October 28, 2012 at 10:46 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 10:51 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - October 28, 2012 at 10:57 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Utracia - October 28, 2012 at 11:20 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 11:28 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Utracia - October 28, 2012 at 11:58 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - October 29, 2012 at 12:05 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Utracia - October 29, 2012 at 12:17 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - October 28, 2012 at 11:30 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by festive1 - October 28, 2012 at 11:45 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 11:55 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by festive1 - October 29, 2012 at 12:10 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 12:31 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by festive1 - October 29, 2012 at 1:28 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 12:00 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 1:37 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by festive1 - October 29, 2012 at 1:39 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 29, 2012 at 4:03 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 10:51 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 29, 2012 at 10:54 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 11:00 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 29, 2012 at 12:12 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 12:25 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 29, 2012 at 12:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 12:41 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Ryantology - October 29, 2012 at 1:47 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 2:10 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 29, 2012 at 2:52 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 3:16 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 29, 2012 at 3:28 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 3:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 29, 2012 at 5:17 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 6:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2012 at 6:38 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 6:55 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 30, 2012 at 10:25 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 10:38 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 30, 2012 at 11:24 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 29, 2012 at 2:01 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 4:38 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by pocaracas - October 29, 2012 at 5:29 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 1:42 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by JohnDG - October 30, 2012 at 3:41 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by jonb - October 30, 2012 at 7:07 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 10:09 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2012 at 10:53 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 11:12 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 10:47 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 10:49 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 30, 2012 at 11:27 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 11:37 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 30, 2012 at 12:15 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 12:39 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 30, 2012 at 10:48 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 10:50 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 10:56 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2012 at 11:04 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 11:06 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2012 at 11:58 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 12:01 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 30, 2012 at 12:06 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 11:03 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Cyberman - October 30, 2012 at 11:25 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 11:02 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 11:09 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 11:13 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 11:18 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 11:21 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 11:26 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 30, 2012 at 12:09 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 12:23 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - October 30, 2012 at 12:31 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 30, 2012 at 12:40 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 12:41 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 30, 2012 at 1:00 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 30, 2012 at 11:21 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 11:52 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 11:55 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 12:05 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 12:07 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 12:09 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 12:11 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by pocaracas - October 30, 2012 at 12:26 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 12:52 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 1:17 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 31, 2012 at 1:24 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 1:36 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2012 at 2:50 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 3:04 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2012 at 4:19 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 5:04 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2012 at 5:37 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 8:02 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - November 1, 2012 at 5:59 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - November 1, 2012 at 1:02 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - November 1, 2012 at 2:01 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 11:42 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2012 at 12:36 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 12:42 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2012 at 1:02 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 1:13 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2012 at 1:24 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2012 at 11:55 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 12:03 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2012 at 12:21 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 12:36 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 12:24 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 31, 2012 at 12:27 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Ryantology - October 31, 2012 at 12:30 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 31, 2012 at 12:42 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by HorribleOffensiveScouser91 - October 31, 2012 at 8:40 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 8:47 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by HorribleOffensiveScouser91 - October 31, 2012 at 8:51 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 8:55 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by HorribleOffensiveScouser91 - October 31, 2012 at 9:05 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 9:20 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by HorribleOffensiveScouser91 - October 31, 2012 at 9:28 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 9:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Prometheus_Unbound - November 4, 2012 at 9:27 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - November 5, 2012 at 12:47 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - November 5, 2012 at 5:51 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - November 6, 2012 at 12:25 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - November 11, 2012 at 11:38 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - November 12, 2012 at 8:23 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - November 6, 2012 at 5:59 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Kousbroek - November 10, 2012 at 8:00 am

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