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Human Value Nonexistent?
RE: Human Value Nonexistent?
(October 30, 2012 at 11:37 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Yes, unless it can be shown to be. But we don't know if praise can be shown to be. We assume it can.

Maybe you don't. Don't assume the same for others

(October 30, 2012 at 11:37 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Subjectively, yes it has worth to us, but it doesn't mean there is actual basis to it.

You don't think the action actually happened? That action is the actual basis of praise.


(October 30, 2012 at 11:37 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Yes, true. But just because we believe something is worthy, doesn't it mean it is.

But if we prove it, the question of belief is irrelevant.

(October 30, 2012 at 11:37 am)MysticKnight Wrote: We have a concept of praise, but it maybe paradoxical.

Not to those who understand its roots.


(October 30, 2012 at 11:37 am)MysticKnight Wrote: But we give it worth out of believe it has worth. So it seems circular:

"We give it worth, therefore it has worth"
"Why do we give it worth, because it has worth"

Paradoxically confusing.

That is where you are wrong. There would be no point in giving it worth if it already has worth. The basis of that worth we give it is not some imagined preexisting worth, but the nature and the purpose of the object itself.



(October 30, 2012 at 11:37 am)MysticKnight Wrote: How?

By determining its suitability for purpose.

(October 30, 2012 at 11:55 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Everyone has a criteria. They don't simply make up their value with total randomness. It's a struggling type choosing beliefs.

Try being rational in the choice.

(October 30, 2012 at 11:55 am)MysticKnight Wrote: We have moral instincts to praise love. We appreciate it. But what is the foundational basis to the praise? Simply because we praise it, therefore it's praiseworthy? But we praise because we believe it's praiseworthy.

Our moral instinct is praise love. We evolved praising one another and loving one another.

Without belief in worth of humanity, we wouldn't have made it this far and evolved to what we are.

But is instinct beliefs justification?

This is a good argument for why instincts don't serve as justifications. You are simply defeating strawman arguments here - coming up with invalid justifications and then arguing why they are not justified.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Human Value Nonexistent? - by Reasonable_Jeff - October 17, 2012 at 7:45 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 17, 2012 at 7:47 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Anomalocaris - October 17, 2012 at 10:47 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 17, 2012 at 11:37 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 17, 2012 at 8:13 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 17, 2012 at 8:50 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Zen Badger - October 17, 2012 at 9:14 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by jonb - October 17, 2012 at 10:17 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Annik - October 17, 2012 at 11:26 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2012 at 6:19 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Annik - October 29, 2012 at 6:24 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Mister Agenda - October 17, 2012 at 11:33 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Minimalist - October 17, 2012 at 11:37 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by mralstoner - October 17, 2012 at 11:57 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 18, 2012 at 12:02 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Reasonable_Jeff - October 19, 2012 at 6:55 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by jonb - October 19, 2012 at 7:07 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Simon Moon - October 19, 2012 at 7:30 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 19, 2012 at 7:34 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Norfolk And Chance - October 19, 2012 at 8:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 20, 2012 at 4:37 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Whateverist - October 23, 2012 at 9:20 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Angrboda - October 18, 2012 at 1:05 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Ryantology - October 19, 2012 at 7:19 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Cyberman - October 19, 2012 at 7:38 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Ryantology - October 19, 2012 at 7:51 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Hovik - October 19, 2012 at 7:52 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Aroura - October 19, 2012 at 8:57 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 2:24 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by downbeatplumb - October 20, 2012 at 4:11 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Cato - October 20, 2012 at 4:34 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Welsh cake - October 20, 2012 at 6:38 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 20, 2012 at 10:24 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 20, 2012 at 1:37 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 1:40 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 2:02 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Welsh cake - October 20, 2012 at 2:04 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 2:22 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Aroura - October 20, 2012 at 4:02 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 4:05 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Aroura - October 20, 2012 at 4:31 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 2:24 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 2:28 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 2:30 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 2:35 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 2:36 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 3:12 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 3:14 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 3:20 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 3:24 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Welsh cake - October 20, 2012 at 3:22 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 3:26 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 3:36 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 3:47 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 3:57 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 4:10 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 4:22 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 20, 2012 at 4:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 20, 2012 at 4:35 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by jonb - October 20, 2012 at 7:13 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Angrboda - October 23, 2012 at 4:30 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by pocaracas - October 23, 2012 at 6:11 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 6:38 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 28, 2012 at 6:44 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 7:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Utracia - October 28, 2012 at 10:04 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 10:29 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 28, 2012 at 10:33 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 10:44 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by festive1 - October 28, 2012 at 10:52 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 11:13 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by festive1 - October 28, 2012 at 11:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 11:39 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - October 28, 2012 at 10:46 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 10:51 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - October 28, 2012 at 10:57 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Utracia - October 28, 2012 at 11:20 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 11:28 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Utracia - October 28, 2012 at 11:58 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - October 29, 2012 at 12:05 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Utracia - October 29, 2012 at 12:17 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - October 28, 2012 at 11:30 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by festive1 - October 28, 2012 at 11:45 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 11:55 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by festive1 - October 29, 2012 at 12:10 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 12:31 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by festive1 - October 29, 2012 at 1:28 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 12:00 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 1:37 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by festive1 - October 29, 2012 at 1:39 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 29, 2012 at 4:03 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 10:51 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 29, 2012 at 10:54 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 11:00 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 29, 2012 at 12:12 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 12:25 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 29, 2012 at 12:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 12:41 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Ryantology - October 29, 2012 at 1:47 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 2:10 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 29, 2012 at 2:52 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 3:16 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 29, 2012 at 3:28 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 3:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 29, 2012 at 5:17 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 6:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2012 at 6:38 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 6:55 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 30, 2012 at 10:25 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 10:38 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 30, 2012 at 11:24 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 29, 2012 at 2:01 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2012 at 4:38 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by pocaracas - October 29, 2012 at 5:29 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 1:42 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by JohnDG - October 30, 2012 at 3:41 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by jonb - October 30, 2012 at 7:07 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 10:09 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2012 at 10:53 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 11:12 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 10:47 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 10:49 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 30, 2012 at 11:27 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 11:37 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 30, 2012 at 12:15 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 12:39 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 30, 2012 at 10:48 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 10:50 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 10:56 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2012 at 11:04 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 11:06 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2012 at 11:58 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 12:01 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 30, 2012 at 12:06 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 11:03 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Cyberman - October 30, 2012 at 11:25 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 11:02 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 11:09 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 11:13 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 11:18 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 11:21 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 11:26 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 30, 2012 at 12:09 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 12:23 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - October 30, 2012 at 12:31 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Darkstar - October 30, 2012 at 12:40 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 12:41 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 30, 2012 at 1:00 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 30, 2012 at 11:21 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 11:52 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 11:55 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 12:05 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 12:07 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 12:09 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 12:11 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by pocaracas - October 30, 2012 at 12:26 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2012 at 12:52 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 30, 2012 at 1:17 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - October 31, 2012 at 1:24 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 1:36 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2012 at 2:50 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 3:04 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2012 at 4:19 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 5:04 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2012 at 5:37 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 8:02 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - November 1, 2012 at 5:59 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - November 1, 2012 at 1:02 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - November 1, 2012 at 2:01 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 11:42 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2012 at 12:36 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 12:42 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2012 at 1:02 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 1:13 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2012 at 1:24 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2012 at 11:55 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 12:03 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2012 at 12:21 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 12:36 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 12:24 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 31, 2012 at 12:27 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Ryantology - October 31, 2012 at 12:30 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by KichigaiNeko - October 31, 2012 at 12:42 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by HorribleOffensiveScouser91 - October 31, 2012 at 8:40 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 8:47 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by HorribleOffensiveScouser91 - October 31, 2012 at 8:51 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 8:55 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by HorribleOffensiveScouser91 - October 31, 2012 at 9:05 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 9:20 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by HorribleOffensiveScouser91 - October 31, 2012 at 9:28 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by MysticKnight - October 31, 2012 at 9:32 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Prometheus_Unbound - November 4, 2012 at 9:27 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - November 5, 2012 at 12:47 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - November 5, 2012 at 5:51 pm
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - November 6, 2012 at 12:25 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by IATIA - November 11, 2012 at 11:38 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by genkaus - November 12, 2012 at 8:23 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Edwardo Piet - November 6, 2012 at 5:59 am
RE: Human Value Nonexistent? - by Kousbroek - November 10, 2012 at 8:00 am

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