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Do you control what you believe?
#76
RE: Do you control what you believe?
(November 1, 2012 at 6:11 am)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: Many people do indeed define 'free will' as merely having some degree of self-control in the sense that our conscious motivations can influence other conscious motivations that we have. But many people also believe that 'free will' is deeper than that.

In the libertarian sense being discussed, essentially by definition, the self-control or conscious input one has on affecting ones own fears and desires can only be motivated by preexisting contravening desires.

Quote:At some pre-conscious level we cannot control what choices we will become aware of nor how motivating we will find them.

(November 1, 2012 at 6:11 am)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: And of course we are ultimately entirely predetermined by unconscious motivation(s)/causes.

In the libertarian sense, we are ultimately and entirely predetermined to be who we already happen to be. Who we are, from our own conscious point of view, is a thing to be discovered, not a thing to be decided. So self awareness requires knowledge of self.

Hmm. This suggests a route to a more satisfying concept of personhood than libertarian free will would on the surface appear to offer. It may be that if one is motivated by a desire for this self knowledge that the scope of decision making available to the individual becomes much greater than "being entirely predetermined" would suggest. It may be that conscious awareness of contradictory desires, in other words gaining a perspective from which possessing them both makes some kind of sense, may actually enable the individual as a whole to reconcile those competing desires. This would not be an exception to the rule that choices and motivations are not consciously manufactured. Here I am suggesting that the contribution of the conscious mind would be to provide a mirror to the deeper levels of the self from whence come all choices and motivation. There is no reason I can think of to suppose that the choices which motivate us are naturally well integrated. What do you think, does it fit?

(November 1, 2012 at 6:11 am)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: I shall also add that apparently there is scientific evidence that all the actions we make are already determined by our unconsciousness shortly before they are determined by any conscious motivation that we have.

I've read about this too. I've never been convinced that the activity detected is evidence that conscious activity is determined by unconscious activity. I assume that conscious activity and unconscious activity are connected. What is being measured here may merely show the marshaling of those unconscious underpinnings in support of the conscious activity.
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Messages In This Thread
Do you control what you believe? - by CapnAwesome - October 9, 2012 at 3:06 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Napoléon - October 9, 2012 at 3:07 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Nine - October 9, 2012 at 3:10 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by TaraJo - October 10, 2012 at 11:11 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Kayenneh - October 9, 2012 at 3:14 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Darkstar - October 9, 2012 at 3:15 pm
Do you control what you believe? - by festive1 - October 9, 2012 at 5:09 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Brian37 - October 9, 2012 at 5:20 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Reforged - October 9, 2012 at 6:43 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by genkaus - October 11, 2012 at 7:40 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by shiver23 - October 9, 2012 at 7:08 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Darkstar - October 9, 2012 at 7:26 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Reforged - October 9, 2012 at 7:29 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Angrboda - October 10, 2012 at 12:44 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Dumac Dwarfking - October 10, 2012 at 1:20 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Aroura - October 11, 2012 at 12:53 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - October 11, 2012 at 10:33 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Aroura - October 11, 2012 at 4:01 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - October 11, 2012 at 7:55 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Aroura - October 11, 2012 at 10:45 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - October 11, 2012 at 11:36 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Aroura - October 11, 2012 at 11:57 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - October 12, 2012 at 2:32 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Anomalocaris - October 10, 2012 at 1:27 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by festive1 - October 10, 2012 at 2:00 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Angrboda - October 11, 2012 at 4:16 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - October 10, 2012 at 2:51 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by JohnDG - October 10, 2012 at 4:38 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Darkstar - October 10, 2012 at 4:44 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by JohnDG - October 10, 2012 at 6:04 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - October 23, 2012 at 5:00 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - October 23, 2012 at 6:40 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - October 24, 2012 at 5:27 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - October 24, 2012 at 8:33 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - October 24, 2012 at 9:24 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Ryantology - October 23, 2012 at 5:38 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by jonb - October 23, 2012 at 6:50 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - October 23, 2012 at 7:40 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Darkstar - October 23, 2012 at 7:43 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - October 23, 2012 at 7:48 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Darkstar - October 23, 2012 at 7:53 pm
Do you control what you believe? - by festive1 - October 23, 2012 at 8:16 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Darkstar - October 23, 2012 at 8:20 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Darkstar - October 23, 2012 at 10:29 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - October 23, 2012 at 10:42 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Darkstar - October 23, 2012 at 10:48 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - October 23, 2012 at 10:57 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by jonb - October 23, 2012 at 8:36 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by IATIA - October 24, 2012 at 12:27 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Polaris - October 24, 2012 at 12:50 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by YASHA - October 26, 2012 at 11:30 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - October 26, 2012 at 2:29 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by MysticKnight - October 26, 2012 at 4:02 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Darkstar - October 26, 2012 at 4:13 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - October 26, 2012 at 7:15 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - October 28, 2012 at 8:44 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - October 28, 2012 at 9:33 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - October 28, 2012 at 10:43 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - October 28, 2012 at 1:06 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by MysticKnight - October 28, 2012 at 9:00 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2012 at 4:09 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by The Grand Nudger - October 28, 2012 at 10:24 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by IATIA - October 29, 2012 at 7:36 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2012 at 12:20 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by IATIA - October 30, 2012 at 12:28 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2012 at 12:42 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by IATIA - October 30, 2012 at 6:57 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2012 at 8:01 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by IATIA - November 1, 2012 at 2:27 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - November 1, 2012 at 3:22 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - November 1, 2012 at 6:11 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - November 1, 2012 at 10:18 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - November 1, 2012 at 11:18 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - November 1, 2012 at 1:53 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - November 1, 2012 at 3:24 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - November 1, 2012 at 4:14 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - November 1, 2012 at 4:38 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by IATIA - November 1, 2012 at 7:46 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - November 3, 2012 at 4:08 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Angrboda - December 2, 2012 at 6:23 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - December 9, 2012 at 10:24 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by clemdog14 - December 18, 2012 at 1:48 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by IATIA - December 25, 2012 at 1:14 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - December 25, 2012 at 10:32 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - December 31, 2012 at 5:47 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by naimless - January 2, 2013 at 11:51 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - January 3, 2013 at 1:20 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by naimless - January 3, 2013 at 11:02 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - January 4, 2013 at 10:06 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by naimless - January 5, 2013 at 3:55 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Angrboda - January 4, 2013 at 2:46 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by paulpablo - January 3, 2013 at 1:57 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Whateverist - January 3, 2013 at 9:38 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by KichigaiNeko - January 3, 2013 at 9:40 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Violet - January 4, 2013 at 11:23 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - January 6, 2013 at 5:08 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by naimless - January 6, 2013 at 6:49 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Zone - January 9, 2013 at 5:39 am
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by BGChuckLee - January 9, 2013 at 4:32 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2013 at 4:33 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by BGChuckLee - January 9, 2013 at 4:38 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2013 at 4:40 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by BGChuckLee - January 9, 2013 at 4:43 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2013 at 4:45 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by BGChuckLee - January 9, 2013 at 4:50 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2013 at 4:54 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Edwardo Piet - January 9, 2013 at 5:19 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Dee Dee Ramone - January 9, 2013 at 7:19 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by Ryantology - January 9, 2013 at 7:18 pm
RE: Do you control what you believe? - by jonb - January 12, 2013 at 8:15 pm

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