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We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why
#44
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why
It might help to see what the Ipuwer Papyrus is and what it says. To call it an Egyptian perspective, a parallel you termed it, of the biblical plagues is stretching the definition of desperation it seems. According to Wikipedia (I know, I know; the main reason I'm using it is to obtain a less biased analysis):

Quote:The Ipuwer Papyrus is a single papyrus holding an ancient Egyptian poem, called The Admonitions of Ipuwer or The Dialogue of Ipuwer and the Lord of All. Its official designation is Papyrus Leiden I 344 recto. It is housed in the Dutch National Museum of Antiquities in Leiden, Netherlands, after being purchased from Giovanni Anastasi, the Swedish consul to Egypt, in 1828. The sole surviving manuscript dates to the later 13th century BCE (no earlier than the 19th dynasty in the New Kingdom).

The Ipuwer Papyrus describes Egypt as afflicted by natural disasters and in a state of chaos, a topsy-turvy world where the poor have become rich, and the rich poor, and warfare, famine and death are everywhere. One symptom of this collapse of order is the lament that servants are leaving their servitude and acting rebelliously.



Parallels with the Book of Exodus

Some have interpreted the document as an Egyptian account of the Plagues of Egypt and the Exodus in the Old Testament of the Bible, and it is often cited as proof for the Biblical account by various religious organisations.[24]

The association of the Ipuwer Papyrus with the Exodus as describing the same event is generally rejected by Egyptologists. Roland Enmarch, author of a new translation of the papyrus, notes: "The broadest modern reception of Ipuwer amongst non-Egyptological readers has probably been as a result of the use of the poem as evidence supporting the Biblical account of the Exodus." While Enmarch himself rejects synchronizing the texts of the Ipuwer Papyrus and The Book of Exodus on grounds of historicity, in The reception of a Middle Egyptian poem: The Dialogue of Ipuwer he acknowledges that there are some textual parallels "particularly the striking statement that ‘the river is blood and one drinks from it’ (Ipuwer 2.10), and the frequent references to servants abandoning their subordinate status (e.g. Ipuwer 3.14–4.1; 6.7–8; 10.2–3). On a literal reading, these are similar to aspects of the Exodus account." Commenting on such attempts to draw parallels, he writes that "all these approaches read Ipuwer hyper-literally and selectively" and points out that there are also conflicts between Ipuwer and the biblical account. He suggests that "it is more likely that Ipuwer is not a piece of historical reportage and that historicising interpretations of it fail to account for the ahistorical, schematic literary nature of some of the poem’s laments," but other Egyptologists disagree (see Genre section above). Examining what Enmarch calls "the most extensively posited parallel", the river becoming blood, he notes that it should not be taken "absolutely literally" as a description of an event but that both Ipuwer and Exodus might be metaphorically describing what happens at times of catastrophic Nile floods when the river is carrying large quantities of red earth, mentioning that Kitchen has also discussed this phenomenon.

Confirmation bias again? Regardless, let's grant that Ipuwer and Exodus are indeed talking about the same events. Have you considered the possibility that the authors of the latter were drawing from the former, perhaps reiterating the poem in a fresh context? I'm sure our resident historians will have more to say on this.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
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Messages In This Thread
We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Killman - November 1, 2012 at 4:59 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Aractus - November 1, 2012 at 5:36 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Killman - November 1, 2012 at 5:46 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Aractus - November 1, 2012 at 7:11 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Gilgamesh - November 1, 2012 at 11:08 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by John V - November 1, 2012 at 8:20 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by festive1 - November 1, 2012 at 10:07 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by John V - November 1, 2012 at 10:34 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Utracia - November 1, 2012 at 10:41 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by John V - November 1, 2012 at 11:17 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Fryslân - November 1, 2012 at 10:39 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Cinjin - November 1, 2012 at 10:55 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Fryslân - November 1, 2012 at 9:16 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Aractus - November 1, 2012 at 9:28 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Fryslân - November 1, 2012 at 10:21 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Aractus - November 1, 2012 at 4:54 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Minimalist - November 2, 2012 at 1:58 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Gilgamesh - November 1, 2012 at 11:35 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Angrboda - November 1, 2012 at 9:33 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by festive1 - November 1, 2012 at 10:45 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Minimalist - November 1, 2012 at 11:26 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Darkstar - November 1, 2012 at 2:15 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by John V - November 1, 2012 at 2:55 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Darkstar - November 1, 2012 at 4:01 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by John V - November 1, 2012 at 4:31 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Darkstar - November 1, 2012 at 4:45 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by John V - November 1, 2012 at 5:04 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Darkstar - November 1, 2012 at 5:13 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by John V - November 1, 2012 at 7:36 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Minimalist - November 1, 2012 at 3:42 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by LastPoet - November 1, 2012 at 5:25 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Undeceived - November 1, 2012 at 5:49 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Cyberman - November 1, 2012 at 5:58 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by IATIA - November 1, 2012 at 7:57 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Drich - November 1, 2012 at 8:39 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by festive1 - November 1, 2012 at 11:06 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Drich - November 2, 2012 at 1:45 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Aractus - November 2, 2012 at 3:06 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Minimalist - November 2, 2012 at 2:24 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Cyberman - November 2, 2012 at 7:52 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Aractus - November 2, 2012 at 8:52 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Ryantology - November 2, 2012 at 1:02 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Aractus - November 3, 2012 at 10:17 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Aractus - November 6, 2012 at 4:22 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by pocaracas - November 3, 2012 at 10:44 pm
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Aractus - November 4, 2012 at 1:41 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Zen Badger - November 4, 2012 at 2:21 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Aractus - November 4, 2012 at 2:35 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Cyberman - November 4, 2012 at 10:06 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Zen Badger - November 4, 2012 at 2:38 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Aractus - November 4, 2012 at 3:07 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Zen Badger - November 4, 2012 at 3:48 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by pocaracas - November 4, 2012 at 5:49 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Aractus - November 4, 2012 at 7:40 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by pocaracas - November 4, 2012 at 10:18 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by festive1 - November 6, 2012 at 9:21 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Cyberman - November 6, 2012 at 9:25 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by festive1 - November 6, 2012 at 9:30 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Cyberman - November 6, 2012 at 9:46 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by festive1 - November 6, 2012 at 10:07 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Cyberman - November 6, 2012 at 10:12 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by pocaracas - November 6, 2012 at 10:20 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by Cyberman - November 6, 2012 at 10:27 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by festive1 - November 6, 2012 at 10:21 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by festive1 - November 6, 2012 at 10:29 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by festive1 - November 6, 2012 at 10:34 am
RE: We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why - by festive1 - November 6, 2012 at 10:39 am

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