We Should Thank Murderers, Here is Why

[Aractus]

Yes, clear evidence muddied up by the point of Ipuwer Papyrus. I do not deny that there is the possibility that Merenre Nemtyemsaf II [what a name] lived during the time that the Exodus COULD have happened...but again, this is, at best, circumstantial evidence.

What level of evidence exactly, are you expecting? Historians do typically go from one extreme to the other in terms of accepting some things with very little evidence, and rejecting others even in the face of increasingly overwhelming evidence. My favourite example of the first point is Egyptian pyramids built by slaves, because historians based that belief on something written by a Greek in 450 BC. So they were "fooled" for 2400 years on what amounted to very weak evidence!

Likewise working on dating the Exodus using the numbers given in the Bible strictly is wrong. Firstly, because the preserved text (the Masoretic Text) isn't perfect and numbers are its weak point, and secondly because not all numbers given in the Bible are literal even in the first place. 1 Kings 6:1 COULD represent an error in transmission. 1480 becomes 480, for example. 1 Sam 13:1 is one of the most obvious examples of corruption in the Hebrew text. And many translations incorrectly "fix it" using late LXX manuscripts.

As long as Christians are willing to accept the fact that the Biblical text today is not 100% perfectly preserved from the originals (which has been proven), then we have to accept that some numbers as we have them are in error.

So I think this sums up perfectly the 600,000 figure (totalling about 2 million Jews) that evacuated Egypt in the Exodus. It's possible that the figure is correct anyway - at the time I've suggested the Exodus took place (the dawn of the Old Kingdom), historians estimate the population of Egyptians around 2 million people. 2 Million Jews would mean that there was one Jewish slave per Egyptian - an entirely possible figure.

Unfortunately, there generally isn't a lot of information on the number of slaves that inhabit a region and Egypt is no different. Some historians even hold the view that there was never any slavery in Egypt. Yet, if the Jews were there and indeed marched off through the Red Sea towards the end of the Old Kingdom, then it fits with Egyptian chronology quite well - they were there in a period of economic prosperity when Egypt was known for wealth and building, and after they left the Egyptian empire quickly declined into civil war.

The chronology of Egypt isn't a perfect science either. So just looking at Egypt itself, the evidence for the Exodus is there if you look in the right place, but even that doesn't give you the exact date or even the year of the Exodus. It simply gives you the period into which the Exodus fits correctly with their chronology.

See, you want there to be a date that it could have happened but the truth of the matter is you have to stretch more than just the timeframe; you have to stretch the numbers of the Hebrews themselves.

I believe I've adequately addressed this point above.

The Sinai desert should have some indication that it once hosted nearly two million people. But hell there's not even evidence that it COULD have hosted two million people; water and food for two million nomads in a desert?

Try to stay focused on one issue. We're talking about the Exodus, not what happened after the Exodus.

The Sinai desert is a different issue altogether. The evidence is more difficult to find because we don't know the correct path of the Israelites. We simply start looking wherever we can. You're correct, it should be littered with pottery that is inscribed with Hebrew writing. If we never found the Titanic would that mean that it never existed?

The other thing is, that if you claim that the Exodus never happened then you have to explain what advantage it would have to invent the story. In other words, why would someone want to believe their identity comes from a period of slavery? What was the "real" origin of the Israelites?

Really now. Not to mention the population of Egypt in the ORIGINAL dating was around 3.5 million all-told. You now introduce a date of a thousand years going back...meaning that population count is likely going to be even lower.

So? Do you have evidence that only one in five Egyptians could own a slave?

So no, the biggest problem needing a solution isn't so much the Pharaoh who existed but rather why such a demographic and economic catastrophe such as the sudden departure of two million slaves never registers anywhere in Egypt's history and why two centuries of ardent archaeology spearheaded by the Israelis themselves has turned up absolutemente nada.

But it does! Aligning the Exodus with the end of the Old Kingdom means that their departure DID contribute a huge impact on the Egyptians. The Bible says they plundered Egypt before they left, so it is impossible that their departure wouldn't have been detrimental to Egypt.