RE: Do atheists even need an objective moral system?
December 13, 2012 at 1:28 am
(This post was last modified: December 13, 2012 at 1:30 am by genkaus.)
(December 12, 2012 at 8:47 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Morality is a function of how we treat our fellow sentient beings.
No, actually, its a function of how we live. Treatment of our fellow sentient beings is just one aspect of it.
(December 12, 2012 at 8:47 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: To say something is morally wrong is to say there is a victim who has been wronged. The reason rape is wrong and homosexuality is not is because with the former there is a victim and with the latter there isn't. Simple enough.
It'd get complicated again when I ask you to define "wronged" without the context of morality or risk being circular in your argument.
(December 12, 2012 at 8:47 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: I don't know what is even meant by "objective morality"? If we say something is objective, that should mean we can measure it. Can we plug numbers into a spreadsheet and determine what is the moral course of action?
Objective simply means independent of an individual(s) will or consciousness. Measurement would require standardization.
(December 12, 2012 at 8:47 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Similarly "subjective" doesn't mean all opinions are equal. Some subjective evaluations are better supported by logic and facts better then others. If a CEO tells shareholders "we had a good year" and the facts show they lost a lot of money, how is the CEO's subjective opinion, even if sincere, superior to the evaluation of the shareholder, "no, it was a bad year you buffoon"?
That's the distinction you are missing. If the evaluation is based on objective facts and supported by logic - then the judgment of good or bad is no longer a subjective opinion.
(December 12, 2012 at 8:47 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Finally, "GodWilsIt" doesn't answer anything. What makes the will of a deity any less subjective? All the theist is doing is moving the question of morality one step further away.
It doesn't. Even if there was a true theistic morality, i.e., based on the will of an actual deity, then it would be subjective as well.
(December 12, 2012 at 8:53 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: When theists throw the term "objective morality" around they mean that certain actions or states are right and wrong independent of anybody's opinion.
Except for god's. Which is what makes their objective morality subjective.
