(January 2, 2013 at 11:19 pm)paulpablo Wrote: my view on islam is that i cant bring myself to believe that gods best attempt to communicate with me and the rest of the world is via a 1500 year old book written in one form of ancient arabic then re written and retranslated again and again and again for over 1500 years.
Plenty of times when i argue in the islamic forums the argument back is "but you dont understand arabic so you cant critisize this verse if you dont know what it means youre only reading a translation of the quran and not original arabic" yet they allow millions of people to convert to islam who dont understand arabic when they dont know what it says even in a translation according to other muslims.
Also the islamic religion does claim that there was a messenger sent to every nation, yet this is a suspicious claim since the islamic religion has only spread where islamic mankind has arrived, despite the claim of some muslim fraudsters who claim the native americans were muslims which has been refuted by historians and by the native americans themselves.
also i dont think muslims use the term convert when they speak about that sort of thing, i think youre supposed to say you reverted back to being muslim.
I think muslims believe that we are all born muslims and the converts are actually reverting back to what they naturally should believe in in the first place
also i can understand your thinking of these acts of terrorism and atrocities arent what you believes come from the quran, but then ask yourself would god create a book including idioms and subjective verses that are open to interpretation and COULD lead people with less logical thinking into terrorism?
Sahih International
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
2:191
Sahih International
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers
Now i dont need you to tell me excuses about why these verses dont mean to tell people terrorism is ok, but the fact is i could read this and believe its ok to kill people, if i was a muslim i could easily think to myself, ok america has killed muslims now i shall kill americans as they have killed us.
"my view on islam is that i cant bring myself to believe that gods best attempt to communicate with me and the rest of the world is via a 1500 year old book written in one form of ancient arabic "
i get your viewpoint but how else would god communicate but through language? Yes its a wounder if you dont know that language. But the quran was picked to be in arabic because of the rich language.
"Also the islamic religion does claim that there was a messenger sent to every nation, yet this is a suspicious claim since the islamic religion has only spread where islamic mankind has arrived"
In islam god has sent over 124,000 profits to every nation with the same message worship god with no partners. Each had different rules and laws given to them. Over time they got changed and people started worshipping things alongside god. Thats the islamic answer.
Sahih International
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
2:191
Sahih International
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers
I don't think you could easily read these verses and think it ok to kill people at all. Other verses yes but these two not at all. Yes you are allowed to fight in self defence but it isn't as easy as ok u killed me now i kill you. Their plenty of other rules e.g. cant hurt women, children, old, sick burn crops building trees religious buildings. cant hurt rreligious people e.g. trunks etc. If the person surrenders on the battlefield that they should be taken to a place of safety their home town. I doubt you could read the quran and think it ok to kill people. As to surah 2:191. It is quite obviously talking about an historical event due to the reference of the masjid in mecca.
But yes i do concede you can read a verse and think ok i can kill people. But you can do that with any religious scripture or any misquote from a person.
But yeah good point brother!
