(October 16, 2009 at 11:46 am)rjh4 Wrote: It seems then you are saying that no matter how reliable the witness evidence was, you wouln't believe it anyway; that even if 500 or more eye witnesses testified personally to you and were willing to put their lives on the line for their witness, you still would not believe because "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". (I am, of course, extrapolating from what you said, especially for the second statement.) Am I correct?
I'm saying that there is no eye witness testimony, and if there was it would not prove the resurrection, but it would be at least be a start. As it is we don't have conclusive proof that Jesus ever existed never mind died and resurrected. With that said, do I think Jesus never existed? I don't know. I've seen arguments that claim Jesus was a myth that morphed into a story believed to have historically happen. I don't know if I believe it. I'm willing to accept the premise that a man named Jesus probably existed and maybe was influential in some respect.
(October 16, 2009 at 11:46 am)rjh4 Wrote: Is there any evidence that you could think of that you would accept? Would you even accept it if you saw it yourself? (In print, the last two questions can come across as being nasty. I assure you that is not my intention. I am merely wondering.)
I didn't take it as nasty, don't worry. First, I want to refer you to an article I wrote a while back to familiarize you with standards of evidence.
Now, as stated, the more extraordinary the claim, the more extraordinary the evidence. It's really hard to prove that a man came back to life 2 centuries ago when science was not as advanced as it is today. It's well known that people can even be buried when they're not really dead, only appear to be, and then "rise from there grave" so to speak.
As I have stated many times, I believe in the scientific method as the most reliable form of finding out what is most likely to be true. Eye witness testimony is so notoriously unreliable. You cannot accept what people claim at face value, you sometimes can't even accept what you see at face value, knowing how well our eyes and minds deceive us. I don't know that there is evidence that could convince me, given that the events happened so long ago and I don't know how it would be tested. If there was a scientifically sound method that could attempt to prove the resurrection, I would certainly consider it. If it happened in front of me, would I believe it? Depends. If it happened in front of me, I would want to ensure I wasn't being tricked or delusional myself. If there was reliable scientific evidence that a person was dead for a day and a half (Dying Friday afternoon and rising Sunday does not constitute as being dead for 3 days, I always thought that was silly), and that he came back to life, and all this was documented clearly...yes, I think I would believe it if it happened in front of me.
If Jesus came down himself and demonstrated to me through miracles that he died and resurrected, I might believe that too, though I would recognize the absurdity of trying to explain to others it happened, given they cannot test for themselves whether it happened, I am lying, or was delusional.
As it is, the evidence that does exist is bad or nonexistent, so it is completely absurd to assure people there is reliable eye witness testimony of the death and resurrection. There clearly is not, and I feel justified in believing that if Jesus existed, he probably did not rise from the dead.
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin
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