islamic forums
January 10, 2013 at 3:36 am
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2013 at 4:06 am by paulpablo.)
This is the type of discussion that just got me banned from another islamic forum
This is me trying to tell a muslim that the word day means 24 hours in english as en expression of a time period and then being banned
THE NEXT BIT IS ME TYPING - PAULPABLO
Re: God created the world in 7 days
1 the first is the definition is of the day time and day light, you could ask somone when is the day time and they would obviously say sometime in the hours of light during a day, but still if you asked somone how long a day was they would say 24 hours.
2 We are on the planet earth, so no one talking to people on earth would say "i made this in seven days, oh i meant seven days on the planet pluto"
5 grandfathers day does last 24 hours
6 won the day is an idiomatic expression but it still means had the biggest victory of the past 24 hours of the allocated day
7 a work day is a work day a school day is a school day, if the bible or koran had said work day or school day you might have a point but it doesnt. ------------------------------------
1a : the time of light between one night and the next b : daylight 1 c : daytime
2: the period of rotation of a planet (as earth) or a moon on its axis
3: the mean solar day of 24 hours beginning at mean midnight
4: a specified day or date
5: a specified time or period : age <in grandfather's day> —often used in plural <the old days> <the days of sailing ships>
6: the conflict or contention of the day <played hard and won the day>
7: the time established by usage or law for work, school, or business .
Which one of these definitions do you think is best applied to the statement made in the quran here?
1 god created the heaven and the earth in 6 daytimes
2 he created the heaven and the earth in 6 rotations of the earth on its axis
3 six days, each day equal to 24 hour time periods
4 six specific dates which makes no sense
5 he created the world in 6 grandfathers days
6 idiomatic expression has nothing to do with what were talking about
7 he created the world in 6 working days
Considering he was making this statement specifically to humans, in a human language to people who lived in the middle east around 2000 years ago, and considering that they for all this time have understood that word to mean 24 hours.
Its only now that science has proven the bible and the quran and the torah stories of creation to be a myth that these religions are changing their stories to fit in with what science has proven
Or maybe the quran is wrong and is being bailed out again by saying "this word means many things in arabic and the translators got it wrong all this time"
just like when people uses excuses about the wife beating verse saying beat doesnt mean beat, just like when people make excuses for the quran saying man was created from between the backbone and ribs saying backbone doesnt mean backbone and ribs doesnt mean ribs, now we come to the point where day doesnt mean day.
The original translators have a lot to answer for if they managed to get all these verses wrong.
Also ive lost count of the amount of times you have said i dont know what im talking about, and that im wrong, without actually showing me where im wrong or providing evidence to the contrary, if you can show me definitions of the arabic word for day and show me how its used in the quran then i will completely admit im wrong, but as for how the word day is used in english ive been using english for 28 years, my entire life, and i know how the word day is used in order to express a period of time by now.
THE NEXT PART IS A QUOTE FROM THE QURAN POSTED BY ME
Sahih International
Indeed, your Lord is Allah , who created the heavens and earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne. He covers the night with the day, [another night] chasing it rapidly; and [He created] the sun, the moon, and the stars, subjected by His command. Unquestionably, His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah , Lord of the worlds.
Muhsin Khan
Indeed your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and then He Istawa (rose over) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty). He brings the night as a cover over the day, seeking it rapidly, and (He created) the sun, the moon, the stars subjected to His Command. Surely, His is the Creation and Commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)!
Pickthall
Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then mounted He the Throne. He covereth the night with the day, which is in haste to follow it, and hath made the sun and the moon and the stars subservient by His command. His verily is all creation and commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!
Yusuf Ali
Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!
Shakir
Surely your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six periods of time, and He is firm in power; He throws the veil of night over the day, which it pursues incessantly; and (He created) the sun and the moon and the stars, made subservient by His command; surely His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah, the Lord of the worlds.
Dr. Ghali
Surely your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days. Thereafter He leveled Himself upon the Throne (How He did so is beyond human understanding). He envelops the daytime (with) the night, (which) seeks it out promptly, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars are subjected to His Command. Verily, to Him (belong) the creation and the Command. Supremely Blessed be Allah, The Lord of the worlds.
Verily, your Lord is God who created the heavens and the earth in six days; then He made for the Throne. He covers night with the day - it pursues it incessantly - and the sun and the moon and the stars are subject to His bidding. Aye!- His is the creation and the bidding,- blessed be God the Lord of the worlds!
THIS NEXT PART IS JUST ME TYPING
These are 7 independent translations of the quran from arabic to english, all of them using the word day, not age, not unspecific time period, not anything else but day.
Only one of them mentions the word period of time, which could mean anything
And if you know of a different way the english word day could be used within this frame work let me know. If you know the arabic word has been translated wrongly here then you should get in touch with the english translators because all 7 of them and more are getting it wrong. Reply With Quote .
THIS NEXT PART IS RON THE ADMISTRATOR FOR THE ISLAMIC WEBSITE
In islamic forums using the dictionary is considered word manipulation.
Im willing to admit that the word days can be used in a different context for example "in the days of shakespear" to mean an era or unspecific time period, but if you were to say the 6 days of shakespear this in my mind would be six, twenty four hour time periods of shakespear.
Also id just like to add that muslims do admit the word "ayyam" means days in arabic if it is proving their point about mathmatic mirracles within the quran, the word ayyam is supposedly mentioned 30 times in the quran which is supposed to amount to the number of days per month
By the way i know the quran doesnt say god created the world in 7 days as the thread is titled, somone else started the thread not me.
This is me trying to tell a muslim that the word day means 24 hours in english as en expression of a time period and then being banned
Quote:Ron
administrator
Re: God created the world in 7 days
Wow, even in English...
None of these definitions contradict the meaning 24 hours.
Let's see:
1. Depending on where you are the hours of light time vary. This doesn't mean we don't accept them as 24 hours, it's that the definition isn't as decisive. So it technically does contradict it.
2. It says rotation of "A" planet and obviously earth is the only one in our solar system that rotates in 24 hours. So again, it does contradict.
4. Potential to argue but I'll let this one go.
5. Really? In "grandfather's 24 hours"?
6. Seriously, won the "24 hours"?
7. Let's see is a work "day" 24 hours? What about a school day?
You have no appreciation for language.
THE NEXT BIT IS ME TYPING - PAULPABLO
Re: God created the world in 7 days
1 the first is the definition is of the day time and day light, you could ask somone when is the day time and they would obviously say sometime in the hours of light during a day, but still if you asked somone how long a day was they would say 24 hours.
2 We are on the planet earth, so no one talking to people on earth would say "i made this in seven days, oh i meant seven days on the planet pluto"
5 grandfathers day does last 24 hours
6 won the day is an idiomatic expression but it still means had the biggest victory of the past 24 hours of the allocated day
7 a work day is a work day a school day is a school day, if the bible or koran had said work day or school day you might have a point but it doesnt. ------------------------------------
1a : the time of light between one night and the next b : daylight 1 c : daytime
2: the period of rotation of a planet (as earth) or a moon on its axis
3: the mean solar day of 24 hours beginning at mean midnight
4: a specified day or date
5: a specified time or period : age <in grandfather's day> —often used in plural <the old days> <the days of sailing ships>
6: the conflict or contention of the day <played hard and won the day>
7: the time established by usage or law for work, school, or business .
Which one of these definitions do you think is best applied to the statement made in the quran here?
1 god created the heaven and the earth in 6 daytimes
2 he created the heaven and the earth in 6 rotations of the earth on its axis
3 six days, each day equal to 24 hour time periods
4 six specific dates which makes no sense
5 he created the world in 6 grandfathers days
6 idiomatic expression has nothing to do with what were talking about
7 he created the world in 6 working days
Considering he was making this statement specifically to humans, in a human language to people who lived in the middle east around 2000 years ago, and considering that they for all this time have understood that word to mean 24 hours.
Its only now that science has proven the bible and the quran and the torah stories of creation to be a myth that these religions are changing their stories to fit in with what science has proven
Or maybe the quran is wrong and is being bailed out again by saying "this word means many things in arabic and the translators got it wrong all this time"
just like when people uses excuses about the wife beating verse saying beat doesnt mean beat, just like when people make excuses for the quran saying man was created from between the backbone and ribs saying backbone doesnt mean backbone and ribs doesnt mean ribs, now we come to the point where day doesnt mean day.
The original translators have a lot to answer for if they managed to get all these verses wrong.
Also ive lost count of the amount of times you have said i dont know what im talking about, and that im wrong, without actually showing me where im wrong or providing evidence to the contrary, if you can show me definitions of the arabic word for day and show me how its used in the quran then i will completely admit im wrong, but as for how the word day is used in english ive been using english for 28 years, my entire life, and i know how the word day is used in order to express a period of time by now.
THE NEXT PART IS A QUOTE FROM THE QURAN POSTED BY ME
Sahih International
Indeed, your Lord is Allah , who created the heavens and earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne. He covers the night with the day, [another night] chasing it rapidly; and [He created] the sun, the moon, and the stars, subjected by His command. Unquestionably, His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah , Lord of the worlds.
Muhsin Khan
Indeed your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and then He Istawa (rose over) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty). He brings the night as a cover over the day, seeking it rapidly, and (He created) the sun, the moon, the stars subjected to His Command. Surely, His is the Creation and Commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)!
Pickthall
Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then mounted He the Throne. He covereth the night with the day, which is in haste to follow it, and hath made the sun and the moon and the stars subservient by His command. His verily is all creation and commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!
Yusuf Ali
Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!
Shakir
Surely your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six periods of time, and He is firm in power; He throws the veil of night over the day, which it pursues incessantly; and (He created) the sun and the moon and the stars, made subservient by His command; surely His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah, the Lord of the worlds.
Dr. Ghali
Surely your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days. Thereafter He leveled Himself upon the Throne (How He did so is beyond human understanding). He envelops the daytime (with) the night, (which) seeks it out promptly, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars are subjected to His Command. Verily, to Him (belong) the creation and the Command. Supremely Blessed be Allah, The Lord of the worlds.
Verily, your Lord is God who created the heavens and the earth in six days; then He made for the Throne. He covers night with the day - it pursues it incessantly - and the sun and the moon and the stars are subject to His bidding. Aye!- His is the creation and the bidding,- blessed be God the Lord of the worlds!
THIS NEXT PART IS JUST ME TYPING
These are 7 independent translations of the quran from arabic to english, all of them using the word day, not age, not unspecific time period, not anything else but day.
Only one of them mentions the word period of time, which could mean anything
And if you know of a different way the english word day could be used within this frame work let me know. If you know the arabic word has been translated wrongly here then you should get in touch with the english translators because all 7 of them and more are getting it wrong. Reply With Quote .
THIS NEXT PART IS RON THE ADMISTRATOR FOR THE ISLAMIC WEBSITE
Quote:Ron admistrator
People like you come and go. If you were sincere I would be happy to have a discussion with you. However, the fact the you would try to manipulate the dictionary with its definitions and examples that explicitly contradict your assertion makes me believe you have no interest in a real and honest discussion. It's sad that in 28 years you haven't learned but only one form of the word "day" to only mean 24 hours. You will never admit you are wrong because you've been shown to be wrong; you even take on subjects like the Arabic language and know nothing about it but insist on challenging.
Anyway, I've wasted enough time...you've had your day (use it as you please)...but now it's over because trolls are not welcome...
In islamic forums using the dictionary is considered word manipulation.
Im willing to admit that the word days can be used in a different context for example "in the days of shakespear" to mean an era or unspecific time period, but if you were to say the 6 days of shakespear this in my mind would be six, twenty four hour time periods of shakespear.
Also id just like to add that muslims do admit the word "ayyam" means days in arabic if it is proving their point about mathmatic mirracles within the quran, the word ayyam is supposedly mentioned 30 times in the quran which is supposed to amount to the number of days per month
By the way i know the quran doesnt say god created the world in 7 days as the thread is titled, somone else started the thread not me.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.
