free will paradox

[fr0d0]

Well, this is where I have a problem with your worldview. I get uneasy around this concept of posthumous justice because I get the feeling I'm destined for some of it too, in your book, without ever having committed an act worthy of, well, hell. Would you mind explaining exactly what you mean when you talk of posthumous justice?

Posthumously you will suffer in proportion to what you need to redress. You're still in a position to choose, so if you remain obstinate, that goes on longer. At some point in time, you work out the right answer.
I guess as a Christian, I don't consider myself any different to you, I mean, I bring non Christian me to it, which sounds to me less principled than you, although I can't be sure: I'm not a law breaker, but I sometimes think it's cool to be the bad guy, and well, I'm guilty of all the deadly sins. What I think makes me different, in this taboo lingo, is that I accept that I'm wrong and need forgiveness for that. For that small admission, I'm given access to perfection.
It's weird, because it's not a case of trying to be good. I know that Jehovah's witnesses try very hard to earn their way into heaven by doing what's right morally. It's the deal breaker for them. I have jw friends and they're way more moral, in that sense than I am, and they're way more respected as a result.
I should try to be good, but that shouldn't be under the threat of anything, but a product of inspiration. I'm good because God inspires me to be good. Me being good under my own steam is worthless if I'm not doing it for the right reason. Following laws is me being obedient to the law. Not God. Hope that makes some sense! :p

I do still want to know if this hell is as fiery and demon filled as the one depicted biblically, though. Corrective actions are one thing, but I could never condone that hell.

Living in present hell I could tell you all about that, but having never visited the afterlife... :p hehe
I understand God to be just. Depictions of hell are often the worst imaginable. How deep is your rebellion against good? The punishment has to match. I imagine you going in and choosing your level. There's a series of tags on the wall, ranging from tiny objections to the most extreme rebel. You chose your tag and on the reverse is the matching level of suffering. Meanwhile there's me smiling back at you in Christian love. Can there be any more extreme a torture!

The other important question I have relates to the criteria of entry: would I be sent there for, say, homosexuality? Working on the sabbath? Anything like that? Does my nonbelief and refusal to kowtow to the rules in the bible I find strange or bigoted or immoral contribute to the length of time I would spend there? Because it's one thing to mete out punishment for murdering someone, and quite another to do the same because I don't hate the correct people according to a holy book.

I work on the Sabbath no problem. Homosexuality... Do you believe that God made homosexuals that way? I do. The rules of the Bible are meaningless to me. What matters is what God inspired in me. That's the only way I know if something's right or not. In my taboo language, you have a God given gift within you, your moral sense.
You shouldn't hate anyone. I do, but that's not me being a healthy Christian.

Isn't there also a lot of terrible stuff in the bible that's lauded by the narrative voice there?

I don't believe there is, no.

the last evolutionary step which is to make a way possible to solve humanities problem of fallability.

Probably gonna need a little more on that last thing. Are we still talking about hell, there?

No I'm talking about Jesus lol.

Okay, this one I do genuinely take exception to: is it a historical document, and hence reflective of the climate of the time, or is it god's word as to the life he would want his followers to lead? You have the ten commandments and such on one side, indicating the latter, but there's also instructions for owning slaves in there too, among other questionable acts. Are you saying that at one point it was moral to own slaves, but now it isn't? And to be clear, these are definitely instructions for slavery, detailing who you can take as a slave, and the criteria by which you can beat them; this is hardly just instructions for caring for people under you.

Besides which, wouldn't god, in his instructional passages to his flock, be able to set out exactly the kind of society he wanted to see? Why add those instructions at all, if this kind of slavery would be found immoral in time? Unless god actually advocates the owning of another human being?

The ten commandments are the law, the majority of the rest is the Jews trying to implement it at the time. Lots of it they got wrong. Some of it would be sensible.
The instructions for owning slaves are their human regulations. The Good influence we see is to be fairer and to consider slaves as fellow human beings. While this is still abhorrent to us given our present view if slave owning, at the time it was quite a step in the right direction.

Why do I need a rationalization beyond the idea that doing good things is the right thing to do, and that I feel happy when others are? This is one arena where I'm more than happy to appeal to emotions, because empathy is really important to being human.

Sometimes, the answer really can just be as simple as "it feels right."

Like I said I think that ability in you is God given. What the Christian position does is move that from an emotional response to a rational one as well. Or perhaps a far more strongly supported rational position.