How can we be sure this is reality?

[Tiberius]

No one said, and I am not saying, we should act like robots. I am saying on important issues when we conflict on what reality is, the best path is to take those claims into neutral settings and kick the tires and have those claims then independently peer reviewed.

The problem is, there is no neutral setting to take claims into when the claims are about the nature of reality itself.

I am not saying we shouldn't have a sense of awe, or not have any value for pretty things. I am not saying we are even rational all the time, no human ever is every second of their lives. I am not saying we cant or should not enjoy art or sports or music. I am not saying we should oppress or arrest people or things we might not like.

If you get your kicks being a Buddhist, or Hindu or Christian, that is a placebo of that individual, but it cannot be equated to a universal thing, especially not something like a computer or car or cell phone. When people have personal predilections like politics or traditions or religions or favorite sports teams, those are mere personal predilections.

Humans need water and food and clothing. No one needs to watch soccer, they may like it, but they can also play another sport, or not play sports at all.

I have no idea what all that was in reference to, or how it has any bearing on the conversation we are having.

Cut it with the simulation crap please, that is simply a si fi version of a god.

No. That's kinda the entire point of the discussion here. Whether it is the sci-fi version of a God is irrelevant anyway. We are talking about possible realities.

Who caused the simulation? If it was uncased, then it it has no puppet master. If it has no puppet master then it doesn't need to be called a simulation, it can simply be seen as an ongoing cycle.

Completely irrelevant. The possibility exists without having to go into details, and given that we aren't claiming a simulation is the case, we don't have to either.

If it is a simulation then a more complex simulation caused this one, and then another even more complex simulation caused that one, and then an even more complex simulation caused that one and so on and so on and so on.

Not necessarily. If our scientific reality is the truth, and I create a simulated universe on my computer, that doesn't suddenly make my reality a simulation too. I'm not sure where you got the idea that simulations only come from simulations; that isn't what we are describing here. What we are describing is the possibility that our perceived reality is a simulation. Outside of the simulation, who knows, maybe another simulation, or maybe the actual reality. It doesn't matter.

But, if all this is is an uncased cycle, it can start out from something simple and doesn't need something more complex to explain it.

The point isn't to explain something; the point is to illustrate the possibility.

People who don't understand the difference between science and philosophy should keep out of both the science and philosophy forums, IMO...

We dont need philosophy. We have the TOOL of scientific method. Thats like driving a horse and buggy today.

You really just proved what I said above. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.