For People Who Think There Was No Historical Jesus

[Confused Ape]

IF there was a christ and he actually rose from the dead - that would have been reported by someone

What does that have to do with Christians being persecuted by Nero in 64 AD? I'll post the information from the BBC website because it's easier to follow than reading Tacitus.

Nero's Persecution

Christians were first, and horribly, targeted for persecution as a group by the emperor Nero in 64 AD. A colossal fire broke out at Rome, and destroyed much of the city. Rumours abounded that Nero himself was responsible. He certainly took advantage of the resulting devastation of the city, building a lavish private palace on part of the site of the fire.

Perhaps to divert attention from the rumours, Nero ordered that Christians should be rounded up and killed. Some were torn apart by dogs, others burnt alive as human torches.

Do you think this really happened?

Don't forget the Holy Foreskin! The pecker tip of jesus should be enough to convince us infidels, but gosh darn it, the pope can't remember which closet he stored it in..

But which Holy Foreskin was the real one? There were several.

We know that in the year 30, Shammai dies in Jerusalem and Rabban Gamliel the Elder takes over, for the next 5 years there will be people fasting and praying for some redeemer.

I found something interesting relating to Christian beliefs about Gamilel The Elder.

The Acts of the Apostles introduces Gamaliel as a Pharisee and celebrated scholar of the Mosaic Law.[19] In this passage, Saint Peter and the other apostles are described as being prosecuted by the Sanhedrin for continuing to preach the Gospel, despite the Jewish authorities having previously prohibited it. The passage describes Gamaliel as presenting an argument against killing the apostles,

According to Acts, his authority with his contemporaries was so great that they accepted his advice, regardless of how unwelcome it was. Gamaliel's concluding argument to them had been:

The Book of Acts later goes on to describe Paul of Tarsus recounting that he was "educated at the feet of Gamaliel" about Jewish law,[7]

Gamaliel being a real person doesn't prove that Paul and the apostles existed but it shows that the Christians were trying to give their beliefs a bit of historical background.

We know of a couple, one called Yehudah, who led a rebellion against the Romans, reclaimed some Jewish prisoners, and claimed he could part the seas and get passage back to Egypt. The Romans beheaded him and put his head on a spike, and massacred many of his followers.

I'm having problems finding him - his name might have been translated into something else in articles written in English. Could you give me some more details such as when he was beheaded, please? I find him interesting because he claimed he could perform a miracle.

. But neither write of the massacre of thousands of Jewish baby boys, or even of there being some weird tradition to release a Jewish prisoner on the ever of Passover which is not documented. Nor of the walking dead, the thousands of exorcisms, and anything else.

Those were obviously later additions to the story. Minimalist gave me a lead to Lucian of Samosata who was the first to write that a man had been crucified in Palestine although he doesn't say the man's name was Jesus. Lucian was born in 125 AD. Maybe in the early part of the first century the story had got as far as Pilate executing Christ. Later on people must have decided that, as the Romans crucified criminals, Christ must have been crucified as well. Lucian's comments suggest that he's repeating what the Christians were saying in his lifetime.

Now while there is a "Yeshu" in the Talmud, he is a Hellenized Jew, and given the name of his teacher, he would have lived around 120BCE. And in the centuries that followed, he became a sort of polemic character, and where it said "student" "Yeshu" was sometimes added to mock the Christians. (He is stoned to death for teaching idolotry and was excommunicated for having too much of an eye for the ladies). Obviously not the same guy.

Was that Yeshu Ha Notzri who was supposed to have been stoned to death and hung up somewhere on the eve of Passover? From what I can gather, legends say he was also known as Yeshu ben Pandera because his father was a Roman solider.

My ex-roomate believe that there was a historical Jesus, but that he was an alien and left on his space ship and was probably chewed out by his Commander for violating the Prime Directive.

Looks like he's now commanding a fleet of space ships - Christian Ufology - Jesus Has A Spaceship.

It then inspires him to use them as a way to misdirect focus from him and his problems, until he eventually has Paul executed.

That reminds me of the legend of Saint Peter's martyrdom.

The Annuario Pontifico gives the year of Peter's death as A.D. 64 or A.D. 67. Early church tradition says Peter probably died at the time of the Great Fire of Rome of the year 64.

All I can find on this is Eusebius is saying that Saint Peter was crucified under Nero..

It is, therefore, recorded that Paul was beheaded in Rome itself,541 and that Peter likewise was crucified under Nero.542

If Sulpicious Severus forged the Tacitus passage, why didn't he write it to suggest that Peter was included in the spectacle? Tacitus said -

Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.

I think we can safely say that the immense multitude is an exaggeration but Severus could have phrased this on the lines of "all who pleaded guilty including their leader from Judea; then etc. etc."