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What do moderates think Jesus died for?
January 6, 2019 at 3:07 am
(This post was last modified: January 6, 2019 at 3:09 am by Der/die AtheistIn.)
Many moderates believe there is no Hell, the story of Adam and Eve is purely metaphorical and that Jesus doesn't suffer for our sins. Then WTF did he let himself get killed? According to the story he had divine powers and would've been able to escape, but chose not to. Some say he didn't fight, because he was peaceful, but if he had magic powers, he could've protected himself without hurting anybody. If he wanted to just teach some lessons, why didn't he leave right away or use some invisible shield or something? Why did he come on earth in the first place? Why didn't he use telepathy to communicate? Why did he leave?
Do these moderates actually believe that Jesus was just human?
There is another thing, my parents are moderates themselves and raised me christian, yet they never told me they interpretation to why Jesus let himself getting killed. They didn't tell me about many concepts of this religion that they believe in. Why? Having a wrong opinion is one thing, but having literally no structure when teaching said opinion to your only child is fucking ridiculous.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in God, in none"
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RE: What do moderates think Jesus died for?
January 6, 2019 at 7:09 am
"Victory over death" would be my guess. I doubt you'd get any answer as to what that actually means, or why an omnipotent deity was struggling with this issue (or any issue... given, you know, the omnipotence).
Jesus is like Pinocchio. He's the bastard son of a carpenter. And a liar. And he wishes he was real.
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RE: What do moderates think Jesus died for?
January 6, 2019 at 7:39 am
(January 6, 2019 at 7:09 am)Nihilist Virus Wrote: "Victory over death" would be my guess. I doubt you'd get any answer as to what that actually means, or why an omnipotent deity was struggling with this issue (or any issue... given, you know, the omnipotence).
Really, it seems to me like the only reason those people call Jesus God is because they fear they can't be considered christians otherwise and they fear they might be judged by others.
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RE: What do moderates think Jesus died for?
January 6, 2019 at 7:46 am
Jesus was killed for precisely the same reason Socrates was killed - being a huge pain in the arse.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: What do moderates think Jesus died for?
January 6, 2019 at 7:46 am
(This post was last modified: January 6, 2019 at 7:54 am by Der/die AtheistIn.)
(January 6, 2019 at 7:39 am)Der/die AtheistIn Wrote: (January 6, 2019 at 7:09 am)Nihilist Virus Wrote: "Victory over death" would be my guess. I doubt you'd get any answer as to what that actually means, or why an omnipotent deity was struggling with this issue (or any issue... given, you know, the omnipotence).
Really, it seems to me like the only reason those people call Jesus God is because they fear they can't be considered christians otherwise and they fear they might be judged by others.
They may also believe that God isn't omnipotent and humans screwed his message, but that raises the question why would he let himself get killed by roman soldiers in particular. And if there is the possibility of never returning after death, why risk it? Also why let people screw his sacred texts? free will? Well how about people who care about the truth, isn't their free will mishandled?
(January 6, 2019 at 7:46 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Jesus was killed for precisely the same reason Socrates was killed - being a huge pain in the arse.
Boru
At least Socrates's death was planned by the authorities, and not by himself followed by resurrection after 3 days.
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RE: What do moderates think Jesus died for?
January 6, 2019 at 8:51 am
(January 6, 2019 at 7:46 am)Der/die AtheistIn Wrote: (January 6, 2019 at 7:39 am)Der/die AtheistIn Wrote: Really, it seems to me like the only reason those people call Jesus God is because they fear they can't be considered christians otherwise and they fear they might be judged by others.
They may also believe that God isn't omnipotent and humans screwed his message, but that raises the question why would he let himself get killed by roman soldiers in particular. And if there is the possibility of never returning after death, why risk it? Also why let people screw his sacred texts? free will? Well how about people who care about the truth, isn't their free will mishandled?
(January 6, 2019 at 7:46 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Jesus was killed for precisely the same reason Socrates was killed - being a huge pain in the arse.
Boru
At least Socrates's death was planned by the authorities, and not by himself followed by resurrection after 3 days.
If Jesus planned it himself, then what was the point of his being arrested? Jesus could have just thrown himself under the first passing oxcart.
Boru
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RE: What do moderates think Jesus died for?
January 6, 2019 at 9:15 am
(January 6, 2019 at 8:51 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If Jesus planned it himself, then what was the point of his being arrested? Jesus could have just thrown himself under the first passing oxcart.
Boru
I heard people say it was to prove the romans way of punishement wrong. So he proves it wrong by letting it happen to him? There were plenty cases of people being killed by law, so why didn't he just stick to calling them wrong?
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RE: What do moderates think Jesus died for?
January 6, 2019 at 9:31 am
(January 6, 2019 at 7:46 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Jesus was killed for precisely the same reason Socrates was killed - being a huge pain in the arse.
Boru
The motif of the underdog causing problems and becoming a martyr is far older than the Jesus mythology, and this is another example.
Hero mythology is far older than the bible.
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RE: What do moderates think Jesus died for?
January 6, 2019 at 9:35 am
(January 6, 2019 at 9:15 am)Der/die AtheistIn Wrote: (January 6, 2019 at 8:51 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If Jesus planned it himself, then what was the point of his being arrested? Jesus could have just thrown himself under the first passing oxcart.
Boru
I heard people say it was to prove the romans way of punishement wrong. So he proves it wrong by letting it happen to him? There were plenty cases of people being killed by law, so why didn't he just stick to calling them wrong?
Yes, I've heard that before, and it's rubbish. Crucifixion was a comparatively rare punishment at the time of Jesus and was reserved for the worst classes of criminal, rarely used on free provincials (such as Jesus) and never used on Roman citizens. If Jesus had wanted to make a point about the severity of Roman punishment, he would have arranged to have himself whipped to death.
Boru
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RE: What do moderates think Jesus died for?
January 6, 2019 at 9:41 am
(This post was last modified: January 6, 2019 at 9:46 am by Alan V.)
(January 6, 2019 at 3:07 am)Der/die AtheistIn Wrote: Many moderates believe there is no Hell, the story of Adam and Eve is purely metaphorical and that Jesus doesn't suffer for our sins. Then WTF did he let himself get killed? According to the story he had divine powers and would've been able to escape, but chose not to. Some say he didn't fight, because he was peaceful, but if he had magic powers, he could've protected himself without hurting anybody. If he wanted to just teach some lessons, why didn't he leave right away or use some invisible shield or something? Why did he come on earth in the first place? Why didn't he use telepathy to communicate? Why did he leave?
Do these moderates actually believe that Jesus was just human?
There is another thing, my parents are moderates themselves and raised me christian, yet they never told me they interpretation to why Jesus let himself getting killed. They didn't tell me about many concepts of this religion that they believe in. Why? Having a wrong opinion is one thing, but having literally no structure when teaching said opinion to your only child is fucking ridiculous.
You are correct that the moderate story doesn't hold together, but neither does the fundamentalist story. We are supposed to believe that God offered himself as a sacrifice to prevent himself from throwing people into Hell because of the original sin of Adam and Eve. What kind of sense does that make? How is original sin a rational idea? Plus God could could have just forgiven humans outright, or admitted his own mistake in creating them to begin with.
In my opinion, any Christian interpretation of the Bible sweeps certain problems under the rug.
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