Israel

[The Grand Nudger]

I just didn't mention the Arabic society in details & the level of hideosity it reached, but I assure you we don't live on the same planet me & you. The arabic society -in almost every middle eastern country- is an inhuman society, based on many bad ideas & just crazy elements that you won't even believe.

Well, we do live on the same planet, come on now. Fortunately I exist in a lull between bouts of "hideosity" directed at me and mine. I don't personally live in an inhuman society - which is a fortunate accident of my birth, but I can tell you about places I've been and things I've seen that reach the level that you're likely to be fretting over. My ancestors did live in a great many "inhuman societies- before i got the better end of that stick, and who knows, my descendants may find themselves there again (I'd like to think not). Bad ideas and crazy elements aren't hard to accept at all Atlasss. You've offered one bad idea here, and supported it with crazy elements.

On the standard of living, Egypt for example is a dumpster now, egyptian citizens are not allowed in many hotels because "their filth might hurt the western tourists", pollution is everywhere even in your own food & water, without a drug it's almost impossible to live & stay sane.

Sounds shitty, I guess egyptians put their money on the wrong horse eh?

Your opinion worths nothing in arab countries ; you as a person worth nothing, back in saudi arabia, Americans used to get past checkpoints & even car accidents without any investigations ; while my brother was taken to jail because he was playing soccer in the street when he was a teenager..

You're not making me look forward to adding any extra "arab countries" to the world.....in any case, I can probably find you somebody here in the US with a similar story, "walking while black".

My friend's father died because the ambulance van "missed the house" & didn't call back to check again for the address.. they just went back & left the old man dies..

That one could probably happen here too, though they maintain contact and at least try to find the place. They still may not find the addy or get to you in time - but they'd try. Makes me wonder how many people pass away with an ambulance en route because someone missed the address.

And racism awaits us if we tried to immigrate.
Sorry but no ; we don't live in the same place : ) ..

No, we clearly don't live in the same place. You appear to be living in Shitsbekistan. Personally, I'd take racism over any of what you mentioned above. That said, you could probably avoid the majority of the racism you expect if you emigrated to the US by not emigrating to Valdosta Georgia, for example.

This opinion you're providing here is derived from the colonial age, it can simply be abbreviated to : "thieves have the right to keep your money forever".

Well, more accurately, my opinion is that nations exist. How they came to exist differs from one to the next, but here they are and since they're here dredging up a blood feud will always take a backseat to handling things like civilized human beings. Part of doing this is a willingness to compromise. Discussing the details of a duel between two warring tribes ad infinitum isn't going to help if the aim is to move forward.

okay okay I get your point ><
that goes on civilians only ; but military & mossad ? I hope they burn in hell.

Sure, as long as you're also looking forward to the soldiers of your own side burning in hell then I wouldn't give you any shit for that. If you weren't, I'd give you shit for it, but that's not really going to have much of an effect on your torture fantasies.

No ; I didn't write anything even similar to that. I have problems with immigrations which took place after the Jewish/British invasion of Palestine in 1915. I also provided that the jewish legion was armed & trained to kill.

The immigrations which took place after the date 1915 are my problem.

Right, again, immigrants and invaders.

I withdraw my apology.

Unsurprising.

I understand what you're doing, I have read the link many many times. Though I consider this act mutual.. If you're trying to disprove this topic by pointing to the contradictions in the author's pov, is nothing more than personalizing the issue & makes us go into these riddles..

"Trying" isn't the word. You invoked a logical fallacy, I do not have to do anything to "disprove" your pov - you handled that - and continue to handle that- all by yourself.

You're using TQ because you didn't understand who I'm or what I want with these topics ; even though I have mentioned it in a previous post.

You need to read the link again then, because that's not TQ.

I'll also hammer this until it sticks .. I care not about anything but the information. As long it's valid, as long it's trusted, as long it's a real evidence, I post it. You then come, read, leave. My info would then ring a bell in your mind when Israel fucks you someday like it did to me : )

Broken record. Wouldn't matter if Israel -did- fuck you (which I greatly doubt), if this is the justification or defense for some misdeed on your part or the part of others it would again be TQ.

matter in fact, I care -as an author- about one thing only : is that you -as a reader- revise the sources I have brought & believe that they did actually happen ; that's it.

The recent history of the middle east is a sordid affair - bit like a crowd of villains standing around pointing the finger at each other while they pull the trigger - with another set of villains standing outside that circle feeding warring factions resources for their own benefit. Who was unclear on this?

The posts then are a personal discussion with me ; Rhythm. They represent nothing at all. Many times I have said : don't take me as a representative of Islam on this forum, because those opinions which I provided in some posts are very personal without a real valid evidence .

I'm not taking you as representative of islam.

What if your cruelty was extreme to a way that gets people into a state of shock & depression which might lead them to blow themselves eventually in your face ?

TQ. A sturdy diagnosis might lessen culpability, but my actions would not. I hope you aren't hinting that terrorists, for example, are victims? I would be likely to agree...victims of their handlers.

In many videos I saw about Israel, the state of shock which many children suffer from after campaigns like "ghaza war" does actually turn them insane -science agrees with me on this-.

Yep, yep, that's where you were going, oh boy.

You can also keep wondering why suicide bombers are mostly from countries which war has touched in a very brutal way..

Vae victus.

I can imagine what might happen to my mind, if your crulty took away all my family & friends with a single air strike "mistake".. tell that to the Iraqies who went into hellholes like "abo-ghuraib prison".

It's unwise from you to underestimate the effects your cruelty.

TQ. Not that I don't sympathize, not that I don't understand - but it's still TQ.

Oh no, it's something more like justice. You see, I categorize crimes to pick a side ; the side which enforce the lesser crimes is that part I favor. That's why I always thought that native americans were better than the conquistadors, the first crusaders were better than the Muslims of that time..

I doubt that this is what you have done at all. Maybe I'm wrong, but in light of all these responses and our conversation it wouldn't hurt to take a cold hard look inward and ask yourself some brutally honest "soul searching" questions about the nature and basis of your clear hatred for Israel and teh jews. It might be that your position arose from a clear head but unfortunately coincides in every detail (that you've cared to express thusfar) with the position of bigotry, racism, and extremism.

One reason which makes me stand with the west against al-qaida for example. It also why I think women are better than men ; the total count of crimes which men are most likely to practice are more than women's.

totally different mentalities , mine & yours.

Well..lol, I don't know that A-Q has actually tallied up more crimes then the west et-al , but to be fair, we had a head start. Similarly I doubt that this division of criminality between the sexes has much meat on it's bones. Men do seem to be more likely to commit this or that crime, but whether or not it's because they're male - as opposed to a complex and vast set of circumstances- is probably beyond the scope of this discussion.

Our mentalities are likely to be very similar Atlass, just because I call TQ and chide your favorite horse doesn't mean that I'm any better myself, or that I don't fall prey to the same type of shit. I did, once upon a time, wear a patch and crossed rifles. The trick, is to identify when you're bullshitting yourself.

You're an atheist & I'm a Muslim.. of course you wouldn't consult god as I do !

Right, you believe and I don't, but the status of your belief and my ack thereof is independent of whether or not consulting god is a good idea in such matters.

That's your own personal view. I also think that a person, who doesn't believe that some parts commit more crimes in wars and that all are the same, is also a person I wouldn't share a conversation about mutual peace with.

All are the same in war, relative amount or severity of any given warcrime (which is not war) doesn't excuse another of their own. Discussing which side is the lesser of two pieces of shit on those grounds has exactly what value to a conversation about mutual peace?

My religion teaches me to admit my mistakes ; but the other part must do the same. Equality is impossible in conflicts ; some part is always more or less human than the other.

How measure it ? measure the crimes of war.. something you might feel when you see Hitler's history for example.

Both sides are equally human at all times. How could they be anything but what they are? You know, you do see words like inhuman tossed around with regards to things like the Holocaust. That's a fairly hefty amount of hyperbole, there was nothing about the holocaust that was anything less than entirely human. Some of us (and largely for cultural and religious reasons- though in many cases the underlying cultural and religious reasons themselves have faded while the opinion remains) feel the need to segregate the horrible shit humans do as somehow inhuman, and the good things as somehow more human or humane. Just look at the opposing definitions for the two words, one side contains all the shit we don't like about ourselves and the other all the shit that we do. Two sides of the same human coin.

Again, if step one is to paint Israelis or jews as "less human", your argument is stillborn, and again...appears to be little more than run of the mill bigotry.

Yes. Islam cannot be forced you know god doesn't accept the religion of somebody who is forced. The quran did state that in many, many verses.

What the quran states and what islamic cultures have done are often diametrically opposed. Of course islam can be (and has been) forced. But I'm glad to see that you're willing to call for this. Now the vast majority of you need to pack up your shit and get the fuck out of the entirety of the middle east. You do realize that you are immigrants and invaders, correct?

If it was their lands, yes.. karma. Al-Qaida..afghanistan

Saddam..Iraq.

But civilian killings ?? NO. Nothing justifies that.. Israeli civilians are also included in this rule without any biasing ..

TQ, and a bare invocation of it. It doesn't matter who's land it was, or whose land it now is. Whether you're killing soldiers or civilians, it will still be TQ. Don't get me wrong, justifications for war and violence are (and have very often been) TQ - that's just something we do, doesn't make it a good idea. Like I said above, gotta have some way to know when you're bullshitting yourself - I think it might help us to make better decisions. I won't shed a tear over soldiers that fought for one side or another personally, having been one, but I'm not going to begrudge you or their families for doing so. Civilians, meh, depends on the civilian. You already know that I hold no special regard for the meatsheild variety.