Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: August 3, 2025, 10:19 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Gods forgiveness is worthless.
#26
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless.
(February 27, 2013 at 9:48 am)John V Wrote: You're assuming that Ted has a rightful grievance. Specifically, you're assuming that Ted owns his body and has rights to it. That's not at all a given from a theistic viewpoint.
I think you have that in reverse. The nihilist cannot provide any basis for rights other than power, from which follows the idea that Ted does not own his body. But believers know that Ted has natural rights granted to him by God. Bill clearly does not own Ted's body and has no right to use force against it.

(February 26, 2013 at 10:20 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Bill in a fit of rage with Ted cuts off the larger of Teds testicles.
Bill prays for forgiveness and god tm forgives him.

In this scenario god is a disinterested third party. How come he gets to forgive on Teds behalf?
God is not a disinterested third-party. That is your first mistake.

Your second mistake is thinking that forgiveness prevents consequences. God will forgive Bill, but Bill may still suffer for his violence in this life as part of Divine Providence.

Your third mistake is not recognizing that Bill has commited two crimes: one civil and one moral. Bill has violated Ted, but in so doing he has also violated the 'moral order'. Whether the 'moral order' is God's command, evolutionarily instilled empathy, or Objectivism's moral code, or the Golden Rule, doesn't matter. Making civil restitution with Ted alone does not automatically restore Bill's conformity to the 'moral order'. If repentance brings Bill back into conformity with the 'moral order', that does not pay his civil debt to Ted.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by downbeatplumb - February 26, 2013 at 10:20 am
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Drich - February 26, 2013 at 10:59 am
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by downbeatplumb - February 26, 2013 at 11:05 am
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Drich - February 26, 2013 at 11:17 am
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Esquilax - February 26, 2013 at 11:54 am
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Drich - February 26, 2013 at 12:30 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Cato - February 26, 2013 at 1:13 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Drich - February 26, 2013 at 2:28 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by downbeatplumb - February 26, 2013 at 1:32 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Question Mark - February 26, 2013 at 10:52 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Drich - February 27, 2013 at 1:06 am
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Question Mark - February 27, 2013 at 8:40 am
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Drich - February 27, 2013 at 2:39 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Question Mark - February 27, 2013 at 2:50 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Drich - February 27, 2013 at 5:13 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Neo-Scholastic - February 28, 2013 at 1:24 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Ryantology - February 28, 2013 at 1:45 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Baalzebutt - February 27, 2013 at 3:26 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Minimalist - February 26, 2013 at 11:13 am
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Minimalist - February 26, 2013 at 11:21 am
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Cato - February 26, 2013 at 12:29 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by John V - February 26, 2013 at 1:33 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by downbeatplumb - February 26, 2013 at 1:43 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by John V - February 26, 2013 at 1:53 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by downbeatplumb - February 26, 2013 at 2:07 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by John V - February 26, 2013 at 2:23 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by downbeatplumb - February 26, 2013 at 2:44 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Faith No More - February 26, 2013 at 4:22 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Cato - February 26, 2013 at 11:21 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by John V - February 27, 2013 at 9:48 am
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Neo-Scholastic - February 27, 2013 at 9:56 am
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by ronedee - February 27, 2013 at 1:31 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Question Mark - February 27, 2013 at 2:22 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by ronedee - February 27, 2013 at 3:53 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Baalzebutt - February 27, 2013 at 4:20 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by ronedee - February 28, 2013 at 12:31 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Question Mark - February 28, 2013 at 12:48 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by ronedee - February 28, 2013 at 1:02 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Question Mark - February 28, 2013 at 2:28 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Neo-Scholastic - February 28, 2013 at 3:53 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Question Mark - February 28, 2013 at 4:00 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by ronedee - February 28, 2013 at 4:24 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Question Mark - February 28, 2013 at 4:32 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Esquilax - March 1, 2013 at 10:06 am
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Question Mark - February 27, 2013 at 5:56 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Faith No More - February 27, 2013 at 1:21 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by downbeatplumb - February 27, 2013 at 2:31 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by John V - February 27, 2013 at 4:39 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Ryantology - February 27, 2013 at 4:56 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by John V - February 27, 2013 at 5:24 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Ryantology - February 27, 2013 at 6:37 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Neo-Scholastic - February 27, 2013 at 6:48 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Question Mark - February 27, 2013 at 6:52 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by Ryantology - February 26, 2013 at 10:44 pm
RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless. - by ronedee - March 5, 2013 at 11:40 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  On Hell and Forgiveness LadyForCamus 977 145538 October 19, 2018 at 2:53 pm
Last Post: kelseck
  Elohim and Yahweh are 2 Different Gods Rhondazvous 29 13272 May 17, 2016 at 3:47 pm
Last Post: vorlon13
  Sin & Forgiveness miaharun 119 21882 November 16, 2015 at 4:04 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Debunking the "Dying and Rising Gods" Theory Randy Carson 55 19381 September 22, 2015 at 3:24 pm
Last Post: abaris
  Gods love letter to you evar 2 1827 August 2, 2015 at 12:34 am
Last Post: Jackalope
  Exodus, Gods and Kings. Jacob(smooth) 34 10907 July 5, 2015 at 7:27 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  What makes the Christian God different from thr thousands of other Gods out there? bluemonday 66 15940 March 8, 2014 at 2:20 pm
Last Post: Rampant.A.I.
  My Testimony of the One true Gods existance and grace JesusSaves 1 1677 April 12, 2013 at 10:31 am
Last Post: Creed of Heresy
  Jesus should ask OUR forgiveness DeistPaladin 1 1332 April 14, 2012 at 3:31 am
Last Post: Cinjin
Heart AW yes.... Gods love bbrettle 72 27814 June 6, 2011 at 12:51 pm
Last Post: Napoléon



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)