RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless.
February 27, 2013 at 9:56 am
(This post was last modified: February 27, 2013 at 10:16 am by Neo-Scholastic.)
(February 27, 2013 at 9:48 am)John V Wrote: You're assuming that Ted has a rightful grievance. Specifically, you're assuming that Ted owns his body and has rights to it. That's not at all a given from a theistic viewpoint.I think you have that in reverse. The nihilist cannot provide any basis for rights other than power, from which follows the idea that Ted does not own his body. But believers know that Ted has natural rights granted to him by God. Bill clearly does not own Ted's body and has no right to use force against it.
(February 26, 2013 at 10:20 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Bill in a fit of rage with Ted cuts off the larger of Teds testicles.God is not a disinterested third-party. That is your first mistake.
Bill prays for forgiveness and god tm forgives him.
In this scenario god is a disinterested third party. How come he gets to forgive on Teds behalf?
Your second mistake is thinking that forgiveness prevents consequences. God will forgive Bill, but Bill may still suffer for his violence in this life as part of Divine Providence.
Your third mistake is not recognizing that Bill has commited two crimes: one civil and one moral. Bill has violated Ted, but in so doing he has also violated the 'moral order'. Whether the 'moral order' is God's command, evolutionarily instilled empathy, or Objectivism's moral code, or the Golden Rule, doesn't matter. Making civil restitution with Ted alone does not automatically restore Bill's conformity to the 'moral order'. If repentance brings Bill back into conformity with the 'moral order', that does not pay his civil debt to Ted.