RE: Gods forgiveness is worthless.
February 27, 2013 at 5:13 pm
(This post was last modified: February 27, 2013 at 5:14 pm by Drich.)
(February 27, 2013 at 2:50 pm)Question Mark Wrote: Okay to be fair to everyone then, if it's not the task of the believer, but of god himself to convince me that he exists, then the criteria of the evidence that would convince me differs slightly under certain considerations of god himself.Have you Read Luke 11 yet?
5-6 Then Jesus said to them, “Suppose one of you went to your friend’s house very late at night and said to him, ‘A friend of mine has come into town to visit me. But I have nothing for him to eat. Please give me three loaves of bread.’ 7 Your friend inside the house answers, ‘Go away! Don’t bother me! The door is already locked. My children and I are in bed. I cannot get up and give you the bread now.’ 8 I tell you, maybe friendship is not enough to make him get up to give you the bread. But he will surely get up to give you what you need if you continue to ask. 9 So I tell you, continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. 10 Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them. 11 Do any of you have a son? What would you do if your son asked you for a fish? Would any father give him a snake? 12 Or, if he asked for an egg, would you give him a scorpion? Of course not! 13 Even you who are bad know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father knows how to give the Holy Spirit to the people who ask him.”
To be Given the Gift of the Holy Spirit is to be Given a little piece of God to indewell with in you.
So you are to Ask, Seek, And Knock for God to come and live with in you/your heart.
Consider this:
Quote:God has given himself (I assume) the task of making people believe in him. The established way that he does this is to do as you advised before, which is to A/S/K, at which point god will reveal himself in some way.Through the indewelling of the Holy Spirit. Yes.
Quote:By what I can tell, (and correct me if I'm wrong here), but the ASK method is literally to send out an earnest plea to god to reveal himself to me, at which point he will, and therefore I will believe in him. Problem solved, I'm no longer an atheist.Actually it is two fold. It is to make one humble himself before God, and to have the person seeking God to ready himself to receive God.
Quote:My question then becomes this: What should I watch out for? Upon asking earnestly for him to reveal himself, what is it that he will/might do to make himself known to me?Our first contact with God the holy Spirit usally comes in the way of sin identification. In that God will show you the sins in your life that are preventing you from having a full on relationship with Him. Once you have identified these sins you keep close to your heart, you must repent from them. If you are faithful to this awareness of sin, and learn to turn from these sins and repent of them, then the Manifestation of the Holy Spirit comes in the way of Spiritual fruit. These fruit are identified in Gal 5:22 But the fruit that the Spirit produces in a person’s life is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these kinds of things. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their sinful self. They have given up their old selfish feelings and the evil things they wanted to do. 25 We get our new life from the Spirit, so we should follow the Spirit. 26 We must not feel proud and boast about ourselves. We must not cause trouble for each other or be jealous of each other.
Once we Bear fruit of the Spirit we can expect to receive Spiritual gifts. The List of Spiritual gifts and how to use them, can be found throughout the Book of 1 Cor, but a condensed list/concept is found in 1Cor 12 (the whole Chapter)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=ERV
It is through these Gifts that we see hear and interact with God on a daily basis. there are alot of those who pretend to possess these gifts, but seldom use them outside of self glorification. Once you establish a true legitmate relationship with God, then it is all but impossiable to live for self.
Quote:I've asked before, honestly I have with earnest intention asked for god to make himself known, and to my mind it has not happened. What had I missed?If you did not read Luke 11, take time to read it now. If you have you will notice Asking will only yeild an answer. Answers in of themselves are meaningless with out a context to apply them (which is where seeking comes in) and an on going relationship to help maintain what God has shown you. (Which is what the knocking/God opening the door to you, is all about.)
One of the other members here openly admitted to me that he felt the presents of God, but a short time later dismissed it as some sort of a trivial mind trick. I suggested that He asked and was given what he asked for, but because he did not seek or knock what he asked for could not support everything he needed to build a real relationship. my point being Asking is important but we must also remember to seek and continually knock even after we get what we initially asked and sought after has been given to us.
(February 27, 2013 at 3:26 pm)Baalzebutt Wrote:(February 27, 2013 at 2:39 pm)Drich Wrote: The Burden of proof is not on the believer to provide. God Himself undertakes this task Himself. We as believers are only to provide you with direction on where to find this evidence if you want to experience it for yourself.
Which is why I asked you what does evidence look like for you. Because even though I can not provide it, i know God can. But if your heart is hard and cold to not receiving anything your peers/science has not predigested for you, You will ignore any effort God himself will provide for you. (Just short of changing your mind for you)
Sorry if I seem to be ignoring your efforts, but I have done this dance so many times I was hoping that we could skip a couple of steps, and you still get the intended meaning.
By your own logic, I would have to have faith to be shown evidence.
The fact is that if god were indeed omniscient and omnipotent, he would know EXACTLY what it would take to convince me that he exists and then would provide that evidence regardless of the state of my heart, hard or soft.
Indeed, and that is what is offered if you can only humble yourself before him and A/S/K as you have been instructed.