(March 4, 2013 at 11:28 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Commonly, atheists attack the Christian faith by pointing to fundamentalist Christianity.
No, I'm more of a free range atheist. I'd attack Christianity where I see an opening.
(March 4, 2013 at 11:28 pm)jstrodel Wrote: 1. Not all Christians are young earth creationist / Not all Christians reject evolution. A recent study that I saw said that 48% of evangelical seminary professors accept evolution theory. Many high profile scientists who are evangelicals accept evolutionary theory, such as Francis Collins. Gregory Mendel, the father of modern genetics was a Christian, as are many other scientists whose work has impacted evolutionary theory. Also, not all Christians accept a global flood. Many Christians have basically or near complete agreement with the secular science world, except as it relates to philosophical teachings like naturalism.
So, they accept all the consequences and results of naturalism - things there is a mountain of evidence for and what they'd look like idiots for rejecting - but they reject the premise all that is based on? That sounds rational.
(March 4, 2013 at 11:28 pm)jstrodel Wrote: 2. Not all Christians believe that all unbelievers will go to hell. A range of positions that have been taught by such authoritative figures as John Wesley, CS Lewis, Billy Graham, Zwingli, (maybe) Aquinas, (I think) Justin Matyr, Origen and other Cappocian Fathers and many others. There is Biblical support for this view which you can see in the salvation of Job, Melchizideck and the Ninevites.
So, some of them figured out that it is unconscionable to punish someone for their beliefs instead of their actions? What do they want? A gold star?
(March 4, 2013 at 11:28 pm)jstrodel Wrote: 3. Not all Christians minimize spirituality and prayer or trivialize it. Many churches in America do not take prayer or the supernatural seriously. Maybe you grew up in one of these churches and never experienced anything. I am sorry to hear that. I have traveled and been to monasteries, to charismatic prayer ministries, and to other churches where I have seen the Holy Spirit and seen a vibrant Christian spiritual life. I have experience this on my own. I understand some churches do not get into all this sort of stuff, but if you have not experienced it, that does not mean that it is not real. I promise you that it is real, and what I have seen is so clear to me, I would literally send you $100 if doing that could convince you of what I have seen. It is so real, it has changed my life.
Oh, the experiences are real alright. What's not real is the purported cause of those experience. You really think that churches perpetuating that fraud would be a point in favor of Christianity?
(March 4, 2013 at 11:28 pm)jstrodel Wrote: 4. Not all Christians have traditional opinions on gender. Gordon Fee is a Pentecostal theologian who has advocated for egalitarian gender roles. I attended a church that had a female pastor and many female medical students. There are many churches that do not follow the traditional gender roles but understand versus such as "there is no jew or greek, male nor female, barbarian Scythian slave nor free but Christ is all and in all" Galatians to teach that God gifts all people equally.
Was that before or after the feminist movement?
(March 4, 2013 at 11:28 pm)jstrodel Wrote: 6. Not all Christians are theocratic. Many Christians support Ron Paul or Democratic politicians in America and oppose figures like Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson.
So some of them do have the good sense to realize that the current system is superior. Is that because of their theology or inspite of it?
(March 4, 2013 at 11:28 pm)jstrodel Wrote: Basically, what the Christian church does teach is that there is a right way to live, and that people must live right otherwise they will reap what they sow.
And that theirs' is the right way.
You are not coming up with anything new here. I know that people can be moral and rational despite their Christianity. In fact, I think that that is one of the basic features of humanity - to make sense of the world we live in and to live according to what we've learned. Most of the things you mention here do not occur because of Christianity - they occur inspite of it. Over the many centuries, people have been going towards a more rational and logical outlook and your non-fundamentalist Christian theology is nothing more than an attempt to hold onto the past beliefs. Given the whole mish-mash of random and contradictory ideas that form the basis of Christianity, it is not surprising that theologians would find something - some trick of words or obscure interpretations - to support what the rational part of their minds tells them to be true or right.
