Willaim Craig: Evil is proof that God exists.

[ThomM]

Well, I think most of you are kinda missing the point here, which is why I kudos to Ryantology for the honest reply. Lane's point is that using the argument of Evil to prove God does not exist is not logical. His position is that good and evil have no meaning outside a theological context and so that argument has no force. Now, I know some of you believe in a morality apart from God. I'm not trying to restart another morality thread. I only wanted to clarify the thrust of Lane's argument.

However - good and evil exist around the world - even if places that have never heard of gods. And - they existed before the invention of Xtianity - as well as before Judaism. In fact - the earth existed before the claim of the creation of it by the jewish god.

However - one can use Buddhism or Confucianism as examples of morality in godless religion - since neither accept a "supreme being".

THe idea that morality exists only in a Xtian world is not only hilarious - but it is nonsense. THere have never been a time when the whole world was Xtian - and probably no time when most of it was.

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But that would bring us back to the old "There is no such thing as objective morality, since that is a theological argument, not a social one, and without God there is no theology and without theology there is no morality and without morality there is no good or evil, and since there is evil, there is a God."

But that last statement is certainly BS, because since man made up the theology, to define Good and Evil, one would have to say that God got bored and said, "Hmmm, what kind of BS religion do I want to make up today...Oh, I know, I will knock up a virgin...no..no..wait...this is good...and I will birth myself through her...bwaa...ha...HA...HA...yes! Make it so!" And then he has to explain what is good, what is evil, they write it up, and from all of that we prove that God exists because, well, the very morality that we created in the first place is used to prove that there is a God!

Which is a BS argument at its best.

Agreed

The question you must ask yourself is WHY evil exists at all if a "all good" and "almighty" god exists.

Clearly =- if the god was all good - evil could not exist at all - it could not invent evil. But then - that god would not be almighty.
And the problem with the claim of almighty - is that the "battle" between "gods" good forces and the forces of evil should NOT even happen - since the god can summarily just WILL evil away as the almighty being.

However - the problem is that - even if evil were an indication of a higher power existing - now connect the dots to your religion. Xtians do not claim a god exists - they claim THEIR god exists - and that CANNOT be true. IF you add up all the claims, contradiction and whatnot they have said - a single being - even with multiple personality disorder - could Not fulfill all of them.

And that is where the problem comes in. Religion exists to be a "connection" and a "mediator" between a person and a god. THere is no support that show this can even be true. Even if a "higher power" exists - there is no reason to believe a religion would have any more say with it .