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Objective Morals+
#40
RE: Objective Morals+
(March 13, 2013 at 8:23 am)John V Wrote: What's the proof that there is a right and wrong side?

Thank you.

Predictably and on-cue, the Christian apologist responds with the old retort of who-are-you-to-judge-(my)-god with a dash of who-can-really-be-sure-of-anything-anyway Solipsism.

Why is rape or slavery or genocide or child-abuse wrong? Because they violate the rights of another as defined by The Social Contract. We do not wish to be raped. We do not wish to be enslaved. We don't want our families killed. We would not wish to be subject to being stoned in the public square for disobedience as children. So we don't allow it for others, not just for my own sake and protection (for what is allowed to happen to another could happen to me) but also to avoid hypocrisy, for how can you prescribe for another what you would not tolerate yourself? The Social Contract is reinforced by our own sense of empathy. We are community animals who depend on one another for survival and so we naturally feel and relate to the pain of others.

And so we come to one of many reasons why secular morality is superior to Biblical or other religious-based morality: it focuses like a laser on what the real point of morality is without getting side-tracked by religion's conflict-of-interest.

Morality is a measure of how we treat our fellow sentient beings, acting with empathy and integrity as we would wish to be treated by others. Secularists have the clearest understanding of this point, which is why our focus is the rights and well-being of others.

Religion has an inherent conflict of interest on the issue. It must first and foremost be concerned with its spread among new members and ideological conformity among its current membership. Spiritual well-being and moral guidance must be, at best, secondary considerations. The result is that the most important "moral concerns" of religion are over victimless crimes such as blasphemy, idolatry and apostasy. The "virtues" it primarily espouses and admonishes its members to adopt are similarly useless traits and activities such as prayer, proper observance of rituals and attending church services.

Reading the Bible cover-to-cover allows the reader to notice that most references to "evil" or "abomination" are over such victimless activities that are injurious only to the religion and not to any fellow beings or else these references are to violations of arbitrary taboos such as working on the Sabbath, eating pork or loving someone with similar body parts.

If you don't have time to read the whole Bible, and let's face it, it's a long, badly-written and boring book, just read through the 10 Commandments, vaunted by the faithful as if they were the most profound guidelines of moral behavior. The first four are all about Yahweh, their god, and have nothing to do with how we treat one another. Only four of the ten actually relate to moral principles (how we treat others), don't lie, steal, cheat or murder, and these are no-brainer admonishments part of every culture.

In a nutshell, paraphrasing the old saying, religion is concerned about you doing what you're told, regardless of what's right. Morality is doing what's right, regardless of what you're told.

Clear the religious clutter away. Morality is complex enough without the distractions and conflict of interest that religion brings to the table.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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Messages In This Thread
Objective Morals+ - by FallentoReason - March 11, 2013 at 12:38 am
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 11, 2013 at 12:24 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by Darkstar - March 11, 2013 at 4:13 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by Ryantology - March 11, 2013 at 12:34 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by ideologue08 - March 11, 2013 at 12:35 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 11, 2013 at 1:05 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by ideologue08 - March 11, 2013 at 1:33 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 11, 2013 at 3:56 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 11, 2013 at 4:12 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 11, 2013 at 4:35 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 11, 2013 at 5:05 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 11, 2013 at 5:17 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by Whateverist - March 13, 2013 at 10:50 am
RE: Objective Morals+ - by Napoléon - March 11, 2013 at 1:18 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by ideologue08 - March 11, 2013 at 1:27 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by Something completely different - March 11, 2013 at 1:32 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by Napoléon - March 11, 2013 at 1:34 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by ideologue08 - March 11, 2013 at 1:37 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by Something completely different - March 11, 2013 at 1:39 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by Napoléon - March 11, 2013 at 5:21 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by CleanShavenJesus - March 11, 2013 at 5:08 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by Ryantology - March 11, 2013 at 6:34 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by TromboneAtheist - March 11, 2013 at 5:14 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 12, 2013 at 8:07 am
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 12, 2013 at 8:40 am
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 12, 2013 at 9:41 am
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 12, 2013 at 10:18 am
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 12, 2013 at 11:37 am
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 12, 2013 at 12:08 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 12, 2013 at 1:00 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 12, 2013 at 2:50 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 12, 2013 at 3:41 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 12, 2013 at 4:28 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 12, 2013 at 4:55 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by Ryantology - March 12, 2013 at 10:43 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by Jackalope - March 12, 2013 at 10:52 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 12, 2013 at 10:50 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 13, 2013 at 8:23 am
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 13, 2013 at 9:34 am
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 13, 2013 at 12:28 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 13, 2013 at 1:00 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 13, 2013 at 1:14 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 13, 2013 at 1:26 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by The Grand Nudger - March 12, 2013 at 4:34 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by Ryantology - March 12, 2013 at 11:50 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by The Grand Nudger - March 13, 2013 at 12:19 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 13, 2013 at 4:12 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by CleanShavenJesus - March 13, 2013 at 4:16 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 13, 2013 at 4:28 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 13, 2013 at 4:55 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 13, 2013 at 5:15 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 13, 2013 at 6:38 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 13, 2013 at 7:05 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by John V - March 13, 2013 at 8:02 pm
RE: Objective Morals+ - by DeistPaladin - March 13, 2013 at 8:57 pm

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