Objective Morals+

[John V]

I noticed you've said nothing to defend the Bible on any of the disturbing verses and no-brainer issues like its prescription of how to properly rape your sex slaves. You want to talk about "basic moral issues" there you go.

I noted that rape is part of the natural order. The natural order is apparently a valid basis for morality when you think it supports your position, but it's not valid when it goes against your opinion. Go figure.

You've also offered nothing against my logical arguments on what morality is aside from that's-just-your-opinion. Speaking of "dodges".

You made arguments on morality on a social contract basis. My point is that you didn't support that a social contract approach is more moral than any other. You later brought in the harm principle and natural order as bases for morality. Same problem. Yes, you can reason WITHIN any one of these, but you can't show that any one of them (or any ad hoc mixture, as you use) is the correct system. In the end, it always boils down to personal preference.

But I don't know everything and can't give you a quick, easy answer to complex moral dilemmas involving the animal rights vs. human rights and whether eating meat is inherently immoral so you're declaring victory, right?

Yes, that's certainly a big part of it. You are disingenuous to now act as if it's a minor side issue. You previously said:

And so we come to one of many reasons why secular morality is superior to Biblical or other religious-based morality: it focuses like a laser on what the real point of morality is without getting side-tracked by religion's conflict-of-interest.

Morality is a measure of how we treat our fellow sentient beings, acting with empathy and integrity as we would wish to be treated by others. Secularists have the clearest understanding of this point, which is why our focus is the rights and well-being of others.

You used to think that how we treat sentient beings is the laser-focused real point of morality. The fact is that we treat sentient beings other than ourselves pretty much as we please, then complain if god does likewise with us.