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Is the catholic church a force for good?
#56
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good?
(March 8, 2013 at 2:04 am)Lion IRC Wrote: I thought the best contender would be laying down your earthly life for your fellow humans with no earthly reward. (ie. no insurance policy payout to your surviving relatives.) Self-sacrifice purely for love, done in the faith that there is an afterlife.

That to me would take the sort of faith that an atheist couldnt match and would be hard for an athiest to explain in secular or evolutionary terms. Why deprive your own selfish DNA the opportunity to continue propagating while simultaneously saving the life of someone else whose DNA is technically going to compete with your future offspring.

I'm not sure I understand. You're saying that it's tougher for an atheist to make that sacrifice, because he doesn't have a hereafter to look forward to? I guess there is merit to the idea. It would make the atheist's self-sacrifice an actual sacrifice, though, wouldn't it? Dying in the flesh with the knowledge that you're going to heaven, where you'll spend eternity with all of the good people who ever existed, sounds like a pretty big upgrade. Where's the sacrifice?

Then again, that is also the Christian example, isn't it? Jesus took a fleshly body for a time period that for him was barely the blink of an eye, then sacrificed it and returned to heaven. He gave up something that he never needed. Where was the sacrifice? That's like deciding that for Lent, you're going to stop setting your hand on fire.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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Messages In This Thread
Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - February 27, 2013 at 1:09 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Minimalist - February 27, 2013 at 1:18 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - February 27, 2013 at 1:23 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Nobody - February 27, 2013 at 1:33 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - February 27, 2013 at 1:37 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - February 27, 2013 at 2:01 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - February 27, 2013 at 2:24 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - February 27, 2013 at 10:32 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Esquilax - February 28, 2013 at 3:40 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Ryantology - February 27, 2013 at 2:30 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Minimalist - February 27, 2013 at 2:45 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by EGross - February 27, 2013 at 3:09 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Zen Badger - February 27, 2013 at 8:13 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Napoléon - February 27, 2013 at 8:17 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Minimalist - February 27, 2013 at 11:06 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by EGross - February 28, 2013 at 3:42 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - March 5, 2013 at 11:27 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 15, 2013 at 10:04 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 17, 2013 at 1:28 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - March 18, 2013 at 12:03 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - March 18, 2013 at 12:45 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 18, 2013 at 6:27 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - March 18, 2013 at 10:13 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 19, 2013 at 5:43 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Cato - March 17, 2013 at 1:59 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by ThomM - March 16, 2013 at 6:50 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - March 19, 2013 at 10:43 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 20, 2013 at 5:46 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - March 19, 2013 at 11:45 pm

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