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Is the catholic church a force for good?
#62
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good?
(March 17, 2013 at 1:28 am)Tonus Wrote:
(March 16, 2013 at 9:43 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: My point would be that the atheist could not do it because they would not think/hope there was going to be an afterlife.

Even if the theist DOES go to heaven they have STILL sacrificed their earthly/secular life while the atheist is still alive.

But the theist 'knows' that he has another existence to fall back on. You sacrifice one consciousness for another, better one....


No. They do not all know 100% for certain.
There are those who hope there is an afterlife and yet still doubt. There are those who do not presume their own salvation even if they DO think God definitely exists.
It's not a matter of simply buying your way into heaven by ''good works''.

The key point here is the comparison of like with like.
BOTH the atheist and the theist have a life to sacrifice.

Only the biblical theist can act in the belief of a ''bigger picture'' and so I think this answers the Hitchens wager because the atheist (who equally doesnt want to die) cant match that.

I heard one Christian guy, Mark Roberts, suggest to Christopher Hitchens that praying for someone would meet the challenge (atheists couldnt pray with integrity) but that was a stretch because the atheist wants proof that praying is actually ''doing'' something.

In the case of giving up ones life for no earthly reward, the consequences of the moral act are secular and tangible. It is irrelevant whether the Christian actually goes to heaven or not.
All that matters is the earthly consequence and that they did something which AFAICT the atheist couldnt justifiably do.

I would love to see an atheist scenario that rebuts my suggested answer to Hitchens challenge. Preferably a scenario which doesnt include naive idealism or unfalsifiable metaphysical ''woo''
or revealed wisdom such as the words ''greater love hath no man'' Thinking
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Messages In This Thread
Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - February 27, 2013 at 1:09 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Minimalist - February 27, 2013 at 1:18 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - February 27, 2013 at 1:23 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Nobody - February 27, 2013 at 1:33 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - February 27, 2013 at 1:37 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - February 27, 2013 at 2:01 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - February 27, 2013 at 2:24 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - February 27, 2013 at 10:32 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Esquilax - February 28, 2013 at 3:40 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Ryantology - February 27, 2013 at 2:30 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Minimalist - February 27, 2013 at 2:45 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by EGross - February 27, 2013 at 3:09 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Zen Badger - February 27, 2013 at 8:13 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Napoléon - February 27, 2013 at 8:17 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Minimalist - February 27, 2013 at 11:06 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by EGross - February 28, 2013 at 3:42 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - March 5, 2013 at 11:27 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 15, 2013 at 10:04 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 17, 2013 at 1:28 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - March 18, 2013 at 12:03 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - March 18, 2013 at 12:45 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 18, 2013 at 6:27 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - March 18, 2013 at 10:13 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 19, 2013 at 5:43 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Cato - March 17, 2013 at 1:59 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by ThomM - March 16, 2013 at 6:50 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - March 19, 2013 at 10:43 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 20, 2013 at 5:46 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - March 19, 2013 at 11:45 pm

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