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Is the catholic church a force for good?
#70
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good?
(March 18, 2013 at 10:13 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: The scenario is that neither the atheist nor the theist gains any earthly reward. Thats a level playing field. The challenge would be for the atheist to show a corresponding sacrifice for no earthly gain.
You cannot remove the reward of an afterlife from the table, because it's an important part of the theist's belief system. Lacking that, the theist is in exactly the same situation as the atheist, and there is no reason to think that they will act differently.
Lion IRC Wrote:But these acts, (that an atheist couldnt do,) can result in very real, positive moral outcomes in terms of human happiness and good will even if the atheist says heaven and prayer can't be empirically verified.
Aren't those positive outcomes dependent on the prayer having an effect? Is it the case that every time a theist prays, his prayer is answered? Or is the theist occasionally (perhaps frequently) disappointed, and how will this affect his happiness and good will? Or is it a form of the Placebo Effect, where a person believes prayer will help, and is thus motivated to take the steps necessary to improve his situation?

An atheist would not be helped by prayer, that is true. He'd be left to his own devices and not dependent on a capricious being who might answer his prayer or might decide that he wasn't deserving.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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Messages In This Thread
Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - February 27, 2013 at 1:09 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Minimalist - February 27, 2013 at 1:18 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - February 27, 2013 at 1:23 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Nobody - February 27, 2013 at 1:33 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - February 27, 2013 at 1:37 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - February 27, 2013 at 2:01 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - February 27, 2013 at 2:24 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - February 27, 2013 at 10:32 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Esquilax - February 28, 2013 at 3:40 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Ryantology - February 27, 2013 at 2:30 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Minimalist - February 27, 2013 at 2:45 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by EGross - February 27, 2013 at 3:09 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Zen Badger - February 27, 2013 at 8:13 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Napoléon - February 27, 2013 at 8:17 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Minimalist - February 27, 2013 at 11:06 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by EGross - February 28, 2013 at 3:42 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - March 5, 2013 at 11:27 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 15, 2013 at 10:04 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 17, 2013 at 1:28 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - March 18, 2013 at 12:03 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by justin - March 18, 2013 at 12:45 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 18, 2013 at 6:27 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - March 18, 2013 at 10:13 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 19, 2013 at 5:43 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Cato - March 17, 2013 at 1:59 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by ThomM - March 16, 2013 at 6:50 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - March 19, 2013 at 10:43 pm
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Tonus - March 20, 2013 at 5:46 am
RE: Is the catholic church a force for good? - by Lion IRC - March 19, 2013 at 11:45 pm

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