The concept of Hell discourages belief

[Drich]

The former, if I couldn't stop him from jumping in, in the first place, (at least explaining the danger to him personally), I'd still pull him out when he realizes hot tar is worse than me. The latter would be a problem I suppose if I was powerless to prevent him from tormenting his brothers and sisters.

..for eternity? God is to baby sit every d-bag in the History of the whole world, because YOU can not understand that some do not want anything to do with God or His people? What about those guys who flew those planes on 911? What about everyone like that? Or are you just talking about those who just do not want to completely commit to God in this lfe because they think they will have to give up too much?

So the damned aren't created by God? God isn't omnipresent?

That's my point. What God creates is consumed (at some point) by the nothingness and all will eventually be void.

If there's an abence of God, God cannot be omnipresent.

The bible only points to God being completely present in what He has created. Your idea of 'omnipresents' is not biblically supported.

So I get full knowledge of what God offered AFTER his limited-time get-in-free-if-you-don't-ask-too-many-questions deal expires?

I do not think there is a limit on the questions you can ask God. I have asked everyone that I can think of and all the ones you all ask that I can not answer, But essentially yes. It is my understanding that we will be given to an understanding of how 'things work' When we enter heaven Through Christ.

If I lament my decision, why not take me back?

That was a Question I asked, my answer: Would you lament your choice because your imediate goal would be self perservation? Or would you lament because you Truly Love God? If you truly Loved God then why didn't you Love Him in this life?

Does God hold a grudge?

I'm sure some would say so.

Am I magically unable to change my character once I'm dead, although if I changed my mind 5 minutes before my death I'm in like Flynn?

Only one person in the History of the world has actually been confirmed to do this. (The theif on the cross) I honestly would not bank on the Idea that God is a fool or would be powerless to refuse you if you said the sinners prayer a min before you die.
I would say the Theif would be the exception and not the rule.

If God is omnipresent, there is no such thing as a void of creation.

The bible seems to differ from your 'theology.' Hell is refered to The pit, The Grave, The Void.

Maybe some of us would like it?

Lucifer chose it over God, I am sure some of us would too.

I acknowledge your point here, as I noted, God has already demonstrated an inablility to keep his own house in order, so that's a real danger. If only he were powerful enough to build a wall between the potential troublemakers and the good kids without putting them into a 'void of creation'.

For what reason? So those on one side can gain hatred and resentment till they decide to breach that wall? Instead of a wall God kept a pit unfilled. It's kinda like your wall in that all who do not want to be with Him will go there. Except there is no collaberation or escape.

Because over trillions of years, none of the pro-God kids will ever change their minds, because humans are so constant.

If they did why do you think their minds would change? Was it because God turned his back on them they learned to love Him anyway? Or did they change their minds because they saw what God offered His children and being selfish wanted to maniuplate God to give them what the living have?
I mean really, How can we learn to love God when He has turned His back, when we will not love Him when the Full power and Authority of the Holy Spirit is at our beckon Call in this life?

Seriously, God couldn't even keep the angels in line, and we're no angels. No way this ends well.

Why should God be made to keep anyone inline on that side of eternity? Shouldn't we all want to simply be there with Him to the point of complete willing compliance?

Because God has to do things a certain way to get the results he wants, just like us. He doesn't have options like making the survivors sterile, or killing them off with a disaster, he needs humans to do his dirty work for him, and he needs them to not let little things like conscience stop them, and if they're not brutal and ruthless enough, he can't protect them from the consequences.

Why do any of those things when the ultimate lesson in all of this would be lost? Israel's short commings and failures are there for us to learn from. In an effort that we do not make the same mistakes. It is also there so as to answer our questions as to the nature and reasoning of God.

Also why would God deflect the consenquences of our choices? Isn't that the result of Free will He has given to us?

You don't know as much as you think you do.

But you know better than God?

Well, it's Tex's love I was talking about. I agree, it's a neat solution to theodicy and the POE. Most people get out of it by limiting God's power or omniscience, you choose to do it by limiting his benevolence.

God's absolute benevolence is The only thing on that list is not biblically supported in any way shape or form. Matter of Fact we are expressly told not all of us are His children. The bible even goes so far as to List those that God hates. It even says He hates those with certain character traits. One has to ignore all the bible actually says, in favor of this doctrine of omni benevolence. This is what I am talking about building your own picture of God, rather than worship the picture the Bible has made.

What confuses me is that you also still limit his power with frequent claims that God has to do things in certain ways.

Indeed He does things in accordance to His Nature/Character.

You seem to have chopped both legs off the tripod of theodicy for no good reason. If God is limited in benevolence, you don't need to limit his power to explain his actions/inactions. If you limit his power, you don't need to limit his benevolence.

The the problem you are having is a philosiphical one of the God you have created. While I on the other Hand am repersenting the God of the bible without the benfit of the filter you use to view what 'god' should look like.

Right, because God can't keep order in his own house, and people who choose God in this life will never in eternity act out in the next.

Actually in Revelations After the judgement God allows us to live 1000 years under Christ, and then He will open the gates of Hell to let Satan out to 'test' us, one last time, and appearently some of the 'questionable' people (Maybe death bed converts and the like) side with satan and the remaining will be further seperated. So some who will be let into Heaven will ultimatly end up in Hell.

You seemed to be pretty confident that YOU knew what it mean when you told us what it cost God.

Appearently you are no better at reading me than you are God/Christianity. Fore I have said over and over we did not know the Cost of our salvation. I only pointed to passages that said the Cost was deeper than the physical cross.

Personally, I hope if Jesus was divine, he got to fully recover. He seems to have been a decent chap, mostly. Being human seemed to have a good effect on him.

I hope He is fully restored as well, I hate to think of what my salvation truly cost.

Oh, I know the conversion scam depends on people convincing themselves. Christianity is just like the other prosyletizing religions in that regard: believe first, and you will receive the evidence you need to keep believing. Whoever came up with that was a real student of human nature.

Or the creator of it

It's 'all-powerful' that I understand. If you don't think he can do it, just admit it.

It does seem like you do not understand the basic nature of God. For the Term All Powerful Means God has the final word on what is to be done. Not that He will use his power to go against His nature to satasify a few bockers.
All powerful=I said so and it Will be Done. Not that I will entertain other options.

God the creator of everything parts seas if the story is old enough but hides from skeptics if there's a chance of confirming it. I expect God to be smart enough not to expect people to believe in him if he doesn't let them know he exists. I'll take whatever terms he wants to set, but I'm not bowing down to your imaginary friend because you're so sure he's real.

Then Take him up on His promise and find out for yourself.

If a man told you there was Free Gold to be had if you wait in this line between the hours of 1pm and 5pm and everyone who waited as instructed Got (some even more) what was promised . would you not wait in that line, just because your peers tell you this line looks like other lines that produce nothing? Why not speak to those who waited in that line?

You know that I can actually check to see if someone represents the president, so this analogy is critically flawed right?

You can also Check on the existance of God yourself, so no.

Let me improve your analogy for you. A guy on the internet tells me the president has invited me to a state dinner. I don't believe. He says a bunch of stuff about the president to show he knows him, but some of what he says is at odds with what other people who claim to know the president have said. He can't even send me the paper invitation on presidential letterhead, I have to decide merely on his words.

BUT...it turns out that he actually is in touch with the president and tells him that I turned the offer down because I don't believe it. Is the president a smart enough man to understand that it's not unreasonable to with hold belief when someone claims something with nothing to back it up, or is he offended that I wouldn't believe a stranger who claimed to speak on his behalf?

It breaks my heart you see things this way. Because 'the guy on the internet' is not the only resorce you have. Unless you live in a country that has bann Churches You have a 'local affilate/atashe' you can check with and you have a direct line because the guy on the internet (and if you would check with the local office would confirm) Gave you the president's cell number. Even if it was just the guy on the internet and you lived in one of those countries that has bann the church, you can always just call and see if he picks up. It won't cost you anything it's a toll free line. (Because He paid all the charges)