RE: On Non-belief
April 12, 2013 at 8:07 am
(This post was last modified: April 12, 2013 at 8:12 am by archangle.)
(April 12, 2013 at 7:02 am)FallentoReason Wrote: This isn't an original argument by me, but rather an argument from a Youtuber whose video can be found in this thread: http://atheistforums.org/thread-18268.html
Thanks for sharing that with us median. I've watched more of his videos and I can't believe he does daytime TV instead of travel the world and debate with theists. Absolutely brilliant.
Anyways. He begins by explaining an observation of our universe: here we all are, debating about whether the Christian god exists or not which apparently is too shy to show himself. It seems rather strange that his existence isn't just an everyday fact but rather an "abstract truth" that isn't all that evident, especially when there's so many religions claiming that they're the ones worshipping the true god(s). This, he says, is the last thing we should expect from Bible god. The argument is as follows:
1) If God exists, he desires for us to know x is true, where x is the set of propositions we need to believe in so that we can be saved.
2) If God exists, he has the power to make us know x is true.
3) If God exists, and given (1) & (2), we should know x is true.
4) We do not know x is true.
C) Given (3) & (4), God does not exist.
He goes on to explain that free will doesn't come into this argument as an objection, because God giving us the knowledge that x is true wouldn't negate our free will. The Bible itself gives us plenty of instances where an agent knew God exists, but yet they chose to rebel. There were even agents in the direct presence of God, yet they chose to rebel e.g. Lucifer. So clearly, God making sure we knew x is true shouldn't be a problem at all, but yet we are plagued with people not knowing x is true.
good stuff
Free will doesn't exist. You brain makes choices. No matter what god does, it makes choices. God also understands that if he gave you the ability to chose, then some must, by the nature of how we seem to work, choose against him.